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12 Sep 2011
By: DeathroW22 Beta Tester 15,429 Posts
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Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales

63 Replies 738 Views Created 12-09-2011

"It may also be the only game you play this year where pulling the trigger makes you really feel something, and I can think of no greater compliment."

Heavy Rain developer Quantic Dream believes it lost one million customers, and "between €5 and €10 million", to second-hand sales.


"I can take just one example of Heavy Rain," Quantic Dream co-founder Guillaume de Fondaumiere told GamesIndustry.biz. "We basically sold to date approximately two million units. We know from the Trophy system that probably more than three million people bought this game and played it.


"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between €5 and €10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming."

At the heart of the argument, believes Fondaumiere, is price.

 

"Now, are games too expensive?" he asked.

"I've always said that games are probably too expensive, so there's probably a right level here to find, and we need to discuss this all together and try to find a way to reconcile consumer expectations, retail expectations and also the expectations of the publisher and the developers to make this business a worthwhile business."


Fondaumiere believes the global recession gave rise to the second-hand video game market. He understands that without it, less games would probably have been bought, due to the removal of trade-in discounts.


But, at the moment, "we're basically all shooting ourselves in the foot", he declared.

"Because when developers and publishers alike are going to see that they can't make a living out of producing games that are sold through retail channels, because of second-hand gaming, they will simply stop making these games," he said, or move exclusively online.


Heavy Rain, a PS3 exclusive, was released in February 2010. In his Heavy Rain review, Tom Bramwell called the game "a thrilling mystery, cleverly composed and unlike anything else you will play this year".


 http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-12-used-market-cost-heavy-rain-1m-sales

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Message 1 of 64 (738 Views)
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Re: Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between €5 and €10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming.



And my calculation is from his numbers, he made 10 to 20 million from royalties.

 

Is that not enough?

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Message 2 of 64 (720 Views)
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Re: Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales

Interseting but not surprising really.

I think it is all down to price of new games being to high. I think this was a stand out game something very different to anything else out there and people where maybe not willing to take the risk of paying full price for something they were unsure that they would enjoy. I dont think people are looking to deprive the developers of royalties when buying pre owned games most probably dont even realise that they are doing so. Its just about saving themselves a few quid which probably means they can enjoy more games.

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Re: Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales


Warren_Jeeves wrote:

"On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between €5 and €10 million worth of royalties because of second-hand gaming.



And my calculation is from his numbers, he made 10 to 20 million from royalties.

 

Is that not enough?



It depends entirely on how much it costs to develop.

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Re: Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales

[ Edited ]

Keep in mind that every developer is watching these 'figures', which is why we'll see items such as online passes and episodic content increase allowing studios to claw pack some of the 'lost' revenue from second hand sales.

 

However, Developers and Studios need to play their part and reduce the initial cost of console games, which are most time priced at least (based on RRP) £15 to £20 more than their PC counterparts. That's not right, especially considering the console base is probably the larger sales base. They saw 'us' coming. :smileywink:

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Message 5 of 64 (671 Views)
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Re: Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales

That part is down to the platform holders. Though, I don't think the price of games is bad at all, even on consoles. Admittedly, the lower price of games on PC pushes me towards that instead (and with the constant sales on steam), but I don't mind the price of console games. It'd be nice if they were lower, of course, but it's what allows Sony and Microsoft to sell their console (and some services) at a loss, so they get a return from the games.

I can't see either the platform holders or the game publishers budging on the price, but if is going to be anyone, it'd probably have to be the publishers.
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Re: Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales

[ Edited ]

I can well understand the programmers and the smaller games outfits in having a dim view of the second-hand market. However, with the big-boys pushing out new games at £40 a shot, for what MAY be a half-decent gaming experience, perhaps they can see our side of the argument.

I honestly don't believe that new games HAVE to be that expensive. I think it's a classic case of 'let's see how much we can ask for this product. After all, it's an <<Industry Standard>> pricing point'.

It's now a downward spiral, as people will no longer accept rushed or sub-standard products at these inflated prices, buy it pre-owned and thereby giving the big boys an excuse to continue with the inflated prices.

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Message 7 of 64 (629 Views)
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Re: Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales


Warren_Jeeves wrote:

 

And my calculation is from his numbers, he made 10 to 20 million from royalties.

 

Is that not enough?


 

Its even worse.

 

HIS royalties were 10-20mil. How much did the publishers, developers et. al. make ?

 

WIth comments like that it makes me want to buy second hand even more.  when 10-20mil in royalties isnt enough for someone it highlights the sheer amount of profit there is and also highlights their greed. 

 

I wonder if he stopped to consider how many purchases were made on the back of a second hand sale ?  How many of those second hand gamers came on this forum and rated the game highly ? How many of those second hand sales created a sale because your mate said it was a good game ?  What about all those new game sales that are driven BECAUSE they can offset the cost with a trade in and, ergo, how many of his new sales were generated from a trade of another title.

 

Also, the trophy data is skewed.  How many of those trophies were created from second user accounts ?  I have 2 active accounts on my PS3 but every game that passes through my console will typically have 2 sets of trophy data. Not only that, you need to consider what trophy data is being tracked.

 

My days of buing new games are over and I hope to never buy a new game again. I've just completed my first full year of lovefilm and I couldnt be happier.

 

I feel 100% that I was driven to Lovefilm because of the way in which we get treated as gamers. I just completed WH40k Space Marine. It took 2 sittings (around 6hrs) to complete the single player campaign.  If I had purchased that as new I think I would have gone postal.

 

Sorry for the rant.

 

Drey

 

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Message 8 of 64 (623 Views)
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Re: Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales

yeah but its a double edged sword.....how many games less would they have sold without the trade in market?

 

Trade in are used to purchace many new games.....and many people buy on the basis if they dont like it they can trade it in.

 

With the price of games I think people would be less inclined to try new games  without a trade in market and stick to establihed well known titles.

 

On the other side I can't see why Devs put out games that cost £40.00 with 10 hour campaigns then wonder why people are trading them in so quickly. 

 

They need to look at replay value, and insentivise people to keep their games longer. Maybe something like FREE dlc, or Beta access to the next game (like Halo ODST) They just need to find some reasons for you to hold onto your disk. The current trend of just making it difficult for second hand buyers will only alienate customers in the longterm.

 

 

 

 

 

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Message 9 of 64 (618 Views)
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Re: Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales

On the flipside, 1 million people played the game that wouldn't have otherwise bought the game brand new.

PSN: SlickShoes
Steam: Skiiba
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