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19 Jul 2010
Playstation Staff

Why all the hate for XIII?

28 Replies 1,095 Views Created 19-07-2010

I've been putting off making a thread like this for awhile... but here goes anyway. I'm not gonna dive into the biggest complaint of all straight away though. I'll start with this:

 

It's too different

Woah... Woah what? You're complaining that a Final Fantasy game is different to it's previous games? That's the great thing about Final Fantasy, rather than having to pay the same game every few years with just a different story, the FF games feel different, games like Call of Duty for example, just feel like they get an expansion pack when a new game comes out. If I comeback to the RPG view, Bioware RPG's- Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Dragon Age; they may be great games, but they all feel very similar with very few changes, which, in the end, get's stale and boring,

 

First half (15-25hrs) of the game is completely linear

I've explained this point over and over again. All Final Fantasy games, except, for maybe XII, are linear for the first half, they just give the illusion of exploration with world maps. If you've been on these forums for awhile, you'll probably have seen that my favourite Final Fantasy is VI, but, even this one is linear, the game will limit where you can and cannot go:

 

Narshe → Figaro Castle → Cave of Figaro → South Figaro → Mt. Kolts → Returner's Hideout → Lete River

 

At this point, the game splits into 3 paths to choose from, even so, these 3 paths are completely linear.

 

Locke's path: South Figaro → Cave of Figaro → Narshe

Terra's path: Lete River → Narshe

Sabin's path: Imperial Camp → Phantom Forest → Phantom Train → Barren Falls → The Veldt → Mobliz → Serpent Trench → Nikeah → Narshe

 

And now we're back together. Still going straight.

 

Narshe → Figaro Castle → Kohlingen → Jidoor → Zozo → Opera House → Albrook → Maranda → Tzen → Vector → Magitek Factory → Magitek Research Facility → Esper World → Zozo

 

At this point you finally have free roam, having done I'd say about 70% of the story. It's the same with the rest, just because they have world maps, doesn't make them non-linear. Also, most games are linear these days, very few games feel non-linear, and the games that do give you roaming, don't do it very well, for example, Dragon Age: Origins, the first time I played this game I had no idea what to do, I got given a world map with a number of places to choose from, and even XII, as a I mentioned earlier, despite giving you more freedom, it still blocks places off from you. Imagine if they had given us a world map to travel between: this world just extend the length of the linearity, making you travel across the map, and probably at some point getting slightly lost.

 

XIII has simply streamlined the formula Squeenix has been using, and it brings out some positives, because it's more streamlined and focused, the game flies by, it did not feel like 20 hours for me, I thought I had managed to do it in about 15 on my first time through, I had actually been going for 25 hours. It also goes hand-in-hand with the story, the entire world hates you, why would you stop to look around and visit random peoples houses? And as a side-note, not to mention these hours of linearity does make the impact of walking onto the Central Expanse for the first time a lot better.

 

Think I'm done with that. Next.

No towns :'(

See above: You're on a run from an evil government, why would you stop to mess about in towns. Also, the main function of towns in previous games, shops, are given to you at savepoints. Shops are better than even in my opinion though, the menus and the unique little animations, sounds and pictures each one has are beatiful.

 

Not enough paradigms

There's more than enough, by mid to end game, you'll have figured out your favourite paradigm setup and stick with it, they work exactly as you'll expect, and the game even explains for you. Bully, for example: Com/Syn/Sab, is explained as “COM, augmented by SYN's enhancements, attacks enemies weakened by SAB.”, and that's exactly how it works. Having a good paradigm deck will allow you too respond to anything that happens in battles, and it doesn't require too much of a brain too build a good deck, here's a template for you:

 

Attacking Paradigm – Use this one to attack when you've built a good combo up.

Combo Paradigm – Use this one to build up your combo and stagger

Buffing Paradigm – Use this one to set up buffs before starting an attack.

Debuffing Paradigm – Use this one to debuff your opponents

Medic Paradigm – Switch to this when low health to heal

Tank Paradigm – Switch to this when a boss/enemy is about to use a powerful attack.

 

Using a setup like that, could probably get you through the entire game, for example, this is my basic setup, using that template:

 

COM/COM/COM

COM/RAV/RAV

SYN/SYN/MED

SAB/SAB/MED

MED/MED/SEN

SEN/SEN/SEN

 

This can get me through most fights on the game, by starting at SAB/SAB/MED, then working my way up the paradigms to COM/COM/COM, switching to Medic and Tank when necessary. With just 6 paradigms, like I said, there's more than enough different combinations. Oh. I almost forgot, to add even more depth to the system, each role gives a boost to certain stats, like Commandos increase attack, Medic's however, lower attack.

 

Battles are too slow

I found battles to actually be fast paced compared to other Final Fantasy games, they start off slow, but eventually speed up and get quite hectic, for example, Gigantaur.

 

Crappy characters

What we're you expecting? You're playing a JRPG, we've all gotten used to the same style of characters being used, time for you too to. As for Hope whinging too much, his mother was killed, and he's been made an enemy of the world, and he's only 14, yeah I'd be pretty upset too.

 

It broke my PS3 :@

No, it didn't, every game which sells millions is accused of breaking consoles, because while playing the game their PS3 breaks, it's called a coincidence. Nothing more, nothing less. I've played the game for over 200 hours, and not had a single problem. Not one.

 

 

This is not too say the game does has it's bad points, Summons for example are fairly weak and are only useful in very specific circumstances, and if you play on a SDTV, you'll get hideous screentear, although playing it on a HDTV makes it one of the most beautiful games made, and not being able to switch characters in battle can be frustrating, but other than those few points, it's a good game.

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Re: Why all the hate for XIII?

Agreed totally... nuf said..



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Re: Why all the hate for XIII?

[ Edited ]

I dont see why people shouldn't hate certain games if they dont like them. Just because its final fantasy (an established brand) doesn't mean everyone should love it and buy it.

 

This is what i hate about modern society, even if something is rubbish, people seem to buy into it.

 

Obviously if you genuinely like ff13 then thats fine and its ok. You made your own choice, rather than siding with everyone else.

 

I dont see whats wrong with being honest and having an opinion. People shouldn't get lynched if they dont like something. If everyone praised these games, the companies would churn out the same rubbish, standards would slip, and they would have nothing to improve on. Just yearly updates.

 

I give praise where its due. I really enjoyed the witcher for example (on pc).

 

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Re: Why all the hate for XIII?

 


uguysgiveup wrote:

I dont see why people shouldn't hate certain games if they dont like them. Just because its final fantasy (an established brand) doesn't mean everyone should love it and buy it.

 

This is what i hate about modern society, even if something is rubbish, people seem to buy into it.

 

Obviously if you genuinely like ff13 then thats fine and its ok. You made your own choice, rather than siding with everyone else.

 

I dont see whats wrong with being honest and having an opinion. People shouldn't get lynched if they dont like something. If everyone praised these games, the companies would churn out the same rubbish, standards would slip, and they would have nothing to improve on. Just yearly updates.

 

I give praise where its due. I really enjoyed the witcher for example (on pc).

 


 

Like I said in my last section: XIII isn't free from faults, and does not deserve to be rated 100/100, or like Dengaki gave it 120/100, but it definatly does not deserve the 1/10's and the 2/10s I've seen people give it. If we go with 1 as Horrendous, as bad as ET The Video Game, and 10 as Perfect in every way, I'd give it an 8.

 

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Re: Why all the hate for XIII?

i'm not fussed about it being linear

i just hate the crappy battle system which is crap

why can't square just stick to the battle system that worked instead of trying to make new ones that suck, is it too much to ask for the turned based combat back?
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Re: Why all the hate for XIII?

Just to touch on a point of yours, there is a difference between the linear aspect of lets say FF6 and FF13. While yes its true both are very linear in the way that the world map is opened to you bit by bit, its completely different from the feeling that you are being forced down a corridor. Any minor freedom I had before to look around and interact with npcs has vanished, what am I left with? Battles & cutscenes rinse and repeat. Just felt like they removed the fun factor of the series for me.

 

@Rox The battle system did seem a little half hearted, like they wanted to try something new but at the last moment backed out and tried to mix old with new, didn't so much work for me personally.

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Re: Why all the hate for XIII?

 


Roxas598 wrote:
i'm not fussed about it being linear

i just hate the crappy battle system which is crap

why can't square just stick to the battle system that worked instead of trying to make new ones that suck, is it too much to ask for the turned based combat back?

 

 

Yes! Also, I prefer levels to that cryarium crap.

 

I've been playing FF6 recently (bought it ages ago but got bored of it after like 30 mins and then never touched it in like 8 years) and i'm not enjoying it that much. I've heard many people on teh interweb rave on about it saying it's better than FF7 but I really don't think it's anywhere near so far. Just done the part where everyone splits up btw.

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Re: Why all the hate for XIII?

[ Edited ]

 


ArsenalMark wrote:

 

Like I said in my last section: XIII isn't free from faults, and does not deserve to be rated 100/100, or like Dengaki gave it 120/100, but it definatly does not deserve the 1/10's and the 2/10s I've seen people give it. If we go with 1 as Horrendous, as bad as ET The Video Game, and 10 as Perfect in every way, I'd give it an 8.

 


 

 

Thats fair enough. I do agree that its better than a 1 or 2/10. However i did think it was really mediocre, and personally would have gave it a 5/10. I dont like it enough to think its a good game. But its not the worst game ever either (i just feel its the worst in the final fantasy series so far).

 

Another thing to think about is this: There have been 2 other rpgs released this gen by square enix that have recieved mediocre reviews-

 

Infinite Undiscovery.

 

Gamespot say-

 

Gameworld is lonely and bland   

Too much repetition

 

http://uk.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/infiniteundiscovery/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&t...

 

Nier Replicant.

 

Gamespot say-

 

Story takes way too long to get interesting   

Combat is easy and boring.

 

http://uk.gamespot.com/ps3/action/nier/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary%3Brea...

 

I honestly think FF13 gets away with decent reviews because of its name. Without "final fantasy" (a game in the main series) it probably would have been given a similar average score.

 

There aren't many jrpgs around anymore, and i would like to see them return to form. We need decent rpgs on ps3. 

 

 

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Re: Why all the hate for XIII?


Roxas598 wrote:
i'm not fussed about it being linear

i just hate the crappy battle system which is crap

why can't square just stick to the battle system that worked instead of trying to make new ones that suck, is it too much to ask for the turned based combat back?

Diddymow wrote:

 

Yes! Also, I prefer levels to that cryarium crap.

 

I've been playing FF6 recently (bought it ages ago but got bored of it after like 30 mins and then never touched it in like 8 years) and i'm not enjoying it that much. I've heard many people on teh interweb rave on about it saying it's better than FF7 but I really don't think it's anywhere near so far. Just done the part where everyone splits up btw.


I too would like to see SE make an old-style Final Fantasy game with the old turned based system, personally I think it would be great if they got a deal with the makers of 3D Dot Game Heroes to use the style of graphics that uses aswell. I think it would definatly be a hit, especially with older Final Fantasy fans.

 

But, like I said, if they made the game thats uses the completely the same systems as a previous game I'd be very disappointed, for example, leveling up systems, even if it was one of my favourites (Esper System on VI, Job System on V. Junction System on VIII), the thing that makes the series unique is that it's always different, something I hope they don't change. Take inspiration from them, sure, like VIII's System feels like a much more beefed up version of VI's, but still changed enough to feel different, and XIII's crystarium is similar to X's sphere grid.

 

Talking about Crystarium, I don't like it too much and think it was one of XIII's weaker points, mostly due to the lack of a more advanced version, like on X, you had the regular version and the International Grid(? I Think, can't remember), I'd have loved an International Grid style on XIII, maybe combine all the grids and let us choose where to go ourselves.

 


TheOrion wrote:

Just to touch on a point of yours, there is a difference between the linear aspect of lets say FF6 and FF13. While yes its true both are very linear in the way that the world map is opened to you bit by bit, its completely different from the feeling that you are being forced down a corridor. Any minor freedom I had before to look around and interact with npcs has vanished, what am I left with? Battles & cutscenes rinse and repeat. Just felt like they removed the fun factor of the series for me.

 

@Rox The battle system did seem a little half hearted, like they wanted to try something new but at the last moment backed out and tried to mix old with new, didn't so much work for me personally.


As I mentioned, Final Fantasy has always had that formula, Battle -> Walk -> Battle -> Walk -> Battle -> Walk -> Cutscene -> Boss repeat. And I think the combat system could be better, asI mentioned, switching characters, and an ability to pause the fight to queue up attacks on each character yourself, so for people not as quick on the controller, dont just feel the need to smash Auto-Fight.

uguysgiveup wrote:

 


ArsenalMark wrote:

 

Like I said in my last section: XIII isn't free from faults, and does not deserve to be rated 100/100, or like Dengaki gave it 120/100, but it definatly does not deserve the 1/10's and the 2/10s I've seen people give it. If we go with 1 as Horrendous, as bad as ET The Video Game, and 10 as Perfect in every way, I'd give it an 8.

 


 

 

Thats fair enough. I do agree that its better than a 1 or 2/10. However i did think it was really mediocre, and personally would have gave it a 5/10. I dont like it enough to think its a good game. But its not the worst game ever either (i just feel its the worst in the final fantasy series so far).

 

Another thing to think about is this: There have been 2 other rpgs released this gen by square enix that have recieved mediocre reviews-

 

Infinite Undiscovery:

http://uk.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/infiniteundiscovery/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&t...

 

Nier Replicant: http://uk.gamespot.com/ps3/action/nier/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary%3Brea...

 

I honestly think FF13 gets away with decent reviews because of its name. Without "final fantasy" it probably would have been given a similar score.

 

A fair review would be this: http://www.giantbomb.com/final-fantasy-xiii/61-20664/reviews/

 

There aren't many jrpgs around anymore, and i would like to see them return to form. We need more decent rpgs on ps3. 

 

 


 I read that review up to

 

" The character-development systems are powerful, but too ***** complicated. " and "The same goes for an incredibly arcane system that lets you upgrade your equipment and apply hidden bonus abilities to your characters."

 

I really hope he was being sarcastic, the character development is incredibly simple, and it took me about an hour of messing about at a save point using save and load to figure out the equipment upgrading system, at around Chapter 10, and non of the weapon/accessory abilities are hidden, they're listed in the equip screen. I bet he had hell on earth when he was using the upgrade system on X, if he couldn't figure out XIII's.

 

I also can't comment on the 2 other games Squeenix have made, I don't have them. But I highly doubt they got as much development money as XIII.

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Re: Why all the hate for XIII?

Oh, just remember another thing I dislike about FF13... no "mini game" like chocobo racing or card collecting/battles or blitz ball.
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