General Discussion: Sport

[Gawge]

These FFP rules haven't come into effect yet though - we are seeing a great challenge now because football is left to the free market. We are experiencing a great title race thanks to Man City, who wouldn't be anywhere near the top of the league if FFP came in 10 years ago. 

Thankfully we have a few teams in this league, like Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea who are now all capable of competing for the title when FFP comes in. However, as Martin Samuel says, there is now pretty much no hope of any Spanish side ever breaking into the top two, because nobody can go in there and spend money. The same is true for many other European divisions. 

The likes of Sunderland, Villa, Everton can never hope of doing anything like Man City have - all due to FFP. They are stuck with a ceiling of 6/7th. That's it. The same goes for any other club with decent ambitions - when you get promoted to the Premier League, you can only ever really hope to be a steady club in the league, nothing more. 

As for this myth about Man Utd doing things so much better than Man City... 

From 1988-91, Man Utd spent £15.2m which was 1.62x their 1989 revenue of £9.4m. That's the equivalent of Man Utd spending £533m today. 

Man Utd spent first in order to grow - just like Man City are doing. Man Utd happened to take off just at the right time, with the ability to spread around the globe quickly they began to reap in the rewards of that spending, and then became able to finance themselves. These new FFP rules stop clubs from being able to finance first in order to grow - Man Utd would have not met the FFP rules if they existed in 1989.

Man Utd even had an advantage, because they were allowed to continue spending for the next two decades, whereas now Man City are going to be stopped by FFP rules. 

Even looking at the teams today, there isn't much difference in spending. Take the two teams from Monday night - Man Utd's cost £144m and Man City's cost £175m - not much difference. If you actually look at what would be considered each teams 'first choice' line up, it is even closer, Man Utd's costing £163m and Man City's £170m.

[xLegioNx]

I dunno, I still can't see it crippling clubs to the point where they can't compete or ever have hopes of challenging for the title. Many teams have shattered their expectations due to stability and being well run. Granted it hasn't worked for clubs like Everton yet, but look at Newcastle. I would describe their rise as meteoric given the fact that they weren't even in the premiership a few seasons ago, and are now well within their limits to attain European football. Football teams will always find a way to compete. Same goes for title challengers. It's only because of a few stability issues here and there why Arsenal have come close to challenging for the title only to fall behind and out of the race in seasons for multiple reasons. I firmly stand beside my statement and examples about assistants, coaches, even scouts and medical departments and most importantly managers being the biggest factor in a clubs success.

My knowledge on the clubs outside of England isn't as strong so I'd have to take your word on that. But as far as the premiership goes, it will be fine. These rules may stop growth at a ridiculous rate, but it doesn't grind it to a halt. Far from it. There's still prize money for small things here and there, and selling on hidden gems or keeping them to win things which can help a club to grow financially. Slowly, but grow nevertheless. There are plenty of examples of that. Spurs, Arsenal and Newcastle spring to mind.

[Gawge]

Regarding Newcastle - they have had a very good season, let's see if they can sustain it in the next few years. However, they are a bit of a different kettle of fish - they have a very good support base and a large stadium which they were frequently filling even when they weren't doing so well. 

Sure, you can gather money here and there - but to really compete, you need the Champions League. The Champions League is the ladder, and UEFA are pulling it up. 

You can point to teams like Newcastle now, with a chance of getting into the Champions League - but we are still without the real impact of FFP. The gap is only going to get wider and wider, when the elite clubs playing in the Champions League can spend more and more money, whilst the clubs without it can spend less and less.

[xLegioNx]

I guess we'll see when it comes into affect in the coming seasons. A huge gap in competition quality is not what we want obviously. Though I'm not sure that would happen even with the FFP. Over the last few years there has been a bit of a trickling effect in the premiership where players from the top clubs have moved to the weaker teams from a financial stand-point. Things like this will ensure that there will always be competition in the premiership. And it's something teams can build on provided they have the right minds behind the club. That's what I've seen over previous seasons. 

For me personally, I do not want to see money flood the premiership, and see good teams pushed further down the table despite their efforts to run a good business while other neglect the fact. I'm glad that it's being stopped before it gets out of hand. Because then what we'd end up with is pointless promotions of teams only to see them easily cast back into their former league because some billionaire didn't want them for their play thing.

I want to see clubs make their successes off of their own back and do it the hard way. True, bringing in the rules when some damage has already been done has its bad points, but I don't think for a minute we'd end up with a better league and improve the way football is as far as transfers, wages, and financial policies as a whole if we let things continue with the way it is now. Not even a little bit.

As for champions league, I don't really see the issue. Perhaps I'm not understanding you properly (most likely) and perhaps things will change once the rules come in for the worst, but as it stands, if you put in your effort, you get to compete, and that applies to all leagues. And with it, you're rewarded with a nice sum of cash for your efforts too. 

[xLegioNx]

I'm just waiting for the moment when he doesn't win anything and we move on to the next one. In my opinion, the day we accept we're not that good the better we'll be as a team and supporting nation. Just waiting for the excuses now

[Gawge]

Euro 2012 is a free hit for Hodgson - it's the WC Qualifiers where he should begin being judged.

[englishgolfer]

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Gawge wrote:
Euro 2012 is a free hit for Hodgson - it's the WC Qualifiers where he should begin being judged.

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sadly the front page of the sun hasn't waited for a ball to be kicked...

[Mrdibbles]

The sun went over the top today IMO,ok they wanted Harry but there was know need to attack a man because of the way he speaks,after all harry said he can't read or write but they don't take the ***** out of him. As a Liverpool fan I wish the bloke all the best,he was treated like ***** there to,personally I cant see England getting out of the group stages,we're *****,don't matter who's in charge,they still pick the same ***** players.

[Kiez]

Messi has now scored 68 goals in all competitions, an all-time record breaking German legend Gerd Muller's mark.

[Strangesam]

Don't even mention that newspaper, really bad newspaper in my opinion and lots of others.