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Level 5

Level 5
ProjectVRD
Posts: 13,016
Registered: ‎07-10-2009
Message 1 of 10 (168 Views)

Another Sciency Question!!!

I was reading some posts in another forum and they were debating if it was possible to create a magnetic field around Mars using nuclear reactors and electro-magnets, the planet Mars mind you... not the snack bar.

 

They were throwing around numbers, something about Earth having a field strength of 3.1uT and modern Electro-Magnets having a strength of 30MT at 1 meter. No idea was a T is.

 

They were debating the possibility of lowering the field strength to that of Earth while increasing to range from 1 meter to thousands of kms. Is that possible?

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Level 5

Level 5
Zephon
Posts: 551
Registered: ‎25-02-2002
Message 2 of 10 (157 Views)

Re: Another Sciency Question!!!

The earths magnetic field has a field strength of 31µT (microTeslas). The field strength of a fridge magnet is 5mT (milliTeslas). So that means that the fridge magnet has a stronger magnetic field than the earth. Which sort of makes sense as metal doesn't stick to the floor of the planet magnetically. Its all about scale I suppose. The earths field protects us because it's so big even though it's relatively weak.

You have to be careful when using capital letters when describing units as MT is megaTeslas (1000 Teslas) where as mT is milliTesla (1000th of a Tesla). Neutron Stars have magnetic fields in the MT range. The strongest continuous magnetic field created had a strength of 45T
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Level 5

Level 5
ProjectVRD
Posts: 13,016
Registered: ‎07-10-2009
Message 3 of 10 (156 Views)

Re: Another Sciency Question!!!

Ah right, the numbers and symbols went over my head for the most part. So can the strength of the field be reduced and the range extended by using the same power input?
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Level 7

Level 7
Mike939
Posts: 11,178
Registered: ‎15-04-2008
Message 4 of 10 (108 Views)

Re: Another Sciency Question!!!

I think we should magnetise a dog
 photo sig_zps904e77a1.jpg
*All my spelling and grammar mistakes are on purpose.
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Level 4

Level 4
WJB1
Posts: 3,714
Registered: ‎26-10-2008
Message 5 of 10 (101 Views)

Re: Another Sciency Question!!!

[ Edited ]

1 MT = 1,000,000 T, not 1000 T. They're standard SI prefixes: femto (f), pico (p), nano (n), micro (µ), milli (m),    kilo (K), mega (M), giga (G), tera (T), peta (P), exa (E), each one being 1000 times larger than the last (there's a gap between m and K to indicate 10^0), there are more but I can't remember them.

 

I can't really remember the relavent physics to answer the question but I would guess that the answer is no. I would guess that field strength is proportional to input power, but inversely proportional to the square of the distance. That means that if you input 1 MW 1 m away you might get a 1/(1^2) or 1 T field, if you increase it to 2 MW you'll get a 2/(1^2) or 2 T field 1 m away, whereas if you stick to 1 MW and move 2 m away you get a 1/(2^2) or 0.25 T field. Ultimately that means that as the field gets larger it gets significantly harder to keep the field strength the same.

 

As I say, that's my guess based upon A-level physics from 4 years ago, it could be wrong, I also made up the figures on the spot, they could be completely wrong, but my point was proportionality vs inverse squared proportionality.

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Level 5

Level 5
Zephon
Posts: 551
Registered: ‎25-02-2002
Message 6 of 10 (96 Views)

Re: Another Sciency Question!!!

I thought it was but for some reason I convinced my self it was wrong for some reason with the MT's. Overall it's gonna be quite difficult to generate a sufficient magnetic field over an entire planet despite Mars being smaller than Earth. It should be easier to magnetically shield a ship from the solar radiation however theoretically. I'm rusty on my physics as I left school over 10 years ago.
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Level 5

Level 5
ProjectVRD
Posts: 13,016
Registered: ‎07-10-2009
Message 7 of 10 (85 Views)

Re: Another Sciency Question!!!

Cheers lads, so we are basically putting my mind back to where it was before reading those comments... it is hard to cover Mars in a magenetic field! :smileyvery-happy:

It was on the BBC, as opposed to a forum which I said in the OP. They were discussing ways to keep an atmosphere there, it might go back and remind them alot more than a Magenetic Field is required to stop it going away.
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Level 3

Level 3
fenian
Posts: 28,491
Registered: ‎27-02-2004
Message 8 of 10 (83 Views)

Re: Another Sciency Question!!!

Its a maybe, its one of them Ideas that could maybe work, with enough power we could potentially create a magnetic field large enough to go around mars.

 

But planets magentic fields are usually made by the core, with electicity, and dynamo effect, not  a magnet, mars lost its own.

 

I simply dont know if we can scale the field of a typical magnet up high enough, and am left assuming if we wanted to do it we would need to produce the power of the earths core to make it happen.

 

You could make an interesting practical expermient out of it.

 

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Level 5

Level 5
ProjectVRD
Posts: 13,016
Registered: ‎07-10-2009
Message 9 of 10 (75 Views)

Re: Another Sciency Question!!!

[ Edited ]

 


fenian wrote:

Its a maybe, its one of them Ideas that could maybe work, with enough power we could potentially create a magnetic field large enough to go around mars.

 

But planets magentic fields are usually made by the core, with electicity, and dynamo effect, not  a magnet, mars lost its own.

 

I simply dont know if we can scale the field of a typical magnet up high enough, and am left assuming if we wanted to do it we would need to produce the power of the earths core to make it happen.

 

You could make an interesting practical expermient out of it.

 


 

Well strangely enough ESA are considering using the expertise of CERN to look into testing a magnet they have to see how it can protect astronaughts, but I also read that water is far more efficient at blocking radiation then the reflective material and metals they use now, so I don't understand why they didn't put that in the space station plans. It would have required more journey's up there to building the thing but the station itself could have been one big "life in space" test that way. If the magnet works, then both ideas would probably compliment each other brilliantly meaing a smaller magnet being needed on a spaceship or capsule.

 

Or even, a small dynamo.

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Level 3

Level 3
fenian
Posts: 28,491
Registered: ‎27-02-2004
Message 10 of 10 (65 Views)

Re: Another Sciency Question!!!

I always thought it was power constraints was the reason they didnt use magnetic field around the space station, Its good to see its being researched as its kind of needed if we are serious about staying in space.

 

As for water, I think its simply because water can become radioactive, is heavy, and more valuable as a drink.

 

The news wont cover it anymore because Obama said Nuclear was the future, but the nuclear power plant in Japan, Well its thought it fully melted down, and the fuel rods melted into pellets and are at the bottom, the only thing that stopped a nucelar reaction taking place was the sea water they pumped in, and one could still take place as its leaking all over the place.

 

But back to my point, they have an absolutley huge problem now of radioactive water, hundreds of tonnes of the stuff and they dont really know what to do with it, experts from all over the world are flying to japan just to try and solve this radioactive water problem.

 

And i dont know if that could happen from radiation in space, but I would say the fact it can become radioactive is a concern.

 

Would be cool if it could be used, and its cool to think that soon we might have a mini planet kind of system in orbet.

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