General Discussion

[Gawge]

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fenian wrote:

White lies are like "Hows my hair?", "lovely" even though you dont like it. Meaningless lies we throw away every day as social lubricant. Telling a boss its a good idea when you think hes an idiot, telling people you are having a good day in polite conversation when its an awful day.

I think they are essential, because people are jerks and their honesty isnt always the truth. Its just a point of view rather than the truth.

I hate people who say stuff like "youre looking awful", "your hair is a mess" and then quantify the comment by saying "i was just being honest" like they had a right to insult you because its their opnion your hair is awful or a mess.

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Surely you would rather someone be truthful?

A white lie is simply a denial of realities. It is a refusal to offer honest guidance in a storm. Even on so touchy a subject, lying seems a clear failure of friendship. By reassuring your friend about her appearance, you are not helping her to do what you think she should do to get what she wants out of life.

False encouragement is a kind of theft: it steals time, energy, and motivation a person could put toward some other purpose. In lying to friends, you are not only declining to help them—you are denying them useful information and setting them up for future disappointment.

[fenian]

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Gawge wrote:

Surely you would rather someone be truthful?

A white lie is simply a denial of realities. It is a refusal to offer honest guidance in a storm. Even on so touchy a subject, lying seems a clear failure of friendship. By reassuring your friend about her appearance, you are not helping her to do what you think she should do to get what she wants out of life.

False encouragement is a kind of theft: it steals time, energy, and motivation a person could put toward some other purpose. In lying to friends, you are not only declining to help them—you are denying them useful information and setting them up for future disappointment.

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Thats a load of nonsense to be honest.

Telling the truth is a denail of realities, Its a denail of the reality that you dont really know what youre talking about half the time. Thats the reality, youre not a hairdresser, youre not a trend setter, youre not a stylist, youre not a psychologist, youre not a doctor.

White lies steal nothing and the encouragement isnt always false, people can achieve more than what you or I think they can, they might not but they most certainly can.

The assertment that telling the truth helps people into the future and offers them friendship when telling lies hinder them is absurd. The same can be said about both. I truthfully think my neighbours wife looks like a pig who will never find a man. If she listened to my denail of realities truth, then where would she be today? living as a nun..

How can someone hold the high moral ground and be a good friend when they think their opinion must always be voiced, is correct, and is the truth because they say so. its a complete denail of realty.

[Gawge]

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fenian wrote:

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Gawge wrote:

Surely you would rather someone be truthful?

A white lie is simply a denial of realities. It is a refusal to offer honest guidance in a storm. Even on so touchy a subject, lying seems a clear failure of friendship. By reassuring your friend about her appearance, you are not helping her to do what you think she should do to get what she wants out of life.

False encouragement is a kind of theft: it steals time, energy, and motivation a person could put toward some other purpose. In lying to friends, you are not only declining to help them—you are denying them useful information and setting them up for future disappointment.

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Thats a load of nonsense to be honest.

Telling the truth is a denail of realities, Its a denail of the reality that you dont really know what youre talking about half the time. Thats the reality, youre not a hairdresser, youre not a trend setter, youre not a stylist, youre not a psychologist, youre not a doctor.

White lies steal nothing and the encouragement isnt always false, people can achieve more than what you or I think they can, they might not but they most certainly can.

The assertment that telling the truth helps people into the future and offers them friendship when telling lies hinder them is absurd. The same can be said about both. I truthfully think my neighbours wife looks like a pig who will never find a man. If she listened to my denail of realities truth, then where would she be today? living as a nun..

How can someone hold the high moral ground and be a good friend when they think their opinion must always be voiced, is correct, and is the truth because they say so. its a complete denail of realty.

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I took most of that from a short Sam Harris book, and he does say this:

This is not to say that we are always correct in our judgments of other people. And honesty demands that we communicate any uncertainty we may feel about the relevance of our own opinions. But if we are convinced that a friend has taken a wrong turn in life, it is no sign of friendship to simply smile and wave him onward.

It's not about telling everyone everything that you think - but if someone asks you a question, you tell the truth. It doesn't mean that you should be rude about things, there are always good ways to word statements.

But, if somebody asks whether their hair looks nice, and you genuinely dislike it, you could simply say that you aren't very knowledgable about hairstyles and fashions, but you would prefer it if it was a little more 'X'. She may have got the hair cut to look appealing to other men, and everybody says that it looks great, when in fact it is hideous and she is putting off 'potential suitors' whilst thinking that her hair is great.

[fenian]

Sam harris does not know what a white lie is.

Waving someone down a path you know to be wrong is not a white lie, so cant be used to say why they are bad.

If you dont know about hair, the person asking you knows you dont, and they are not asking your opinion, but for reasurance that things are ok. You give them that reasurance because in reality things are ok despite your opinion.

To force your opinion on people even when youre unsure of yourself is just rude.

"I dont know what im talking about, but i hate it"... yeah thats a lot better than "You look great today".

[PatC_PSN]

My wife stopped asking me whether she looked OK years ago. I think she noticed that I always said yes without looking at her.

[fenian]

How is she supposed to succeed in life pat?

But truth is, you love her and think she looks ok no matter what you aul romantic dont even have to look at her.

[Warren_Jeeves]

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PatC_PSN wrote:

My wife stopped asking me whether she looked OK years ago. I think she noticed that I always said yes without looking at her.

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I can't wait for the day mine stops that too, she even knows I don't look because she even says so but still asks anyway.

I don't know why she bothers, if she looks like crap I would still say she looked nice and I think she knows this.

[dannyjt]

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Warren_Jeeves wrote:

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PatC_PSN wrote:

My wife stopped asking me whether she looked OK years ago. I think she noticed that I always said yes without looking at her.

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I can't wait for the day mine stops that too, she even knows I don't look because she even says so but still asks anyway.

I don't know why she bothers, if she looks like crap I would still say she looked nice and I think she knows this.

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Just give her my email address. Tell her if she wants an opinion on what her arse looks like in that dress, then she can send me a pic.

It's ok, I'm a lesbian.

[Warren_Jeeves]

She's too old for you she's 28 Danny, probably too old for me too now.

[dannyjt]

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Warren_Jeeves wrote:
She's too old for you she's 28 Danny, probably too old for me too now.

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There's less of an age difference for me than there is for you