General Discussion

[Gawge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13436429

I was listening to Ken Clarke on 5 Live this morning, and I largely agreed with him. I'm surprised at the storm which has been whipped up regarding his comments.

I thought that we could perhaps finally have a sensible conversation about prison sentences and all that surrounds it. However, perhaps that is wishful thinking, as when mentioning rape, unless you pretty much talk about torturing the culprit, you will be savagely attacked by the media. 

I'd like to know what Ed Miliband disagrees with, as it seems to me like bandwagon jumping, which unfortunately will probably work. What Ken Clarke put forward are sensible recommendations which will actually improve the country, rather than satisfying the tabloids and revenge-driven public.

[ProjectVRD]

Sorry Gawge but no way mate. A guilty plea should have zero bearing on a case anyway. Regardless of how they plead to any crime if they are found guilty then there should be a standard sentence duration, and for rape.... 15 years is appropriate. The law is way too leniant in this country.

[Gawge]

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ProjectVRD wrote:

A guilty plea should have zero bearing on a case anyway. Regardless of how they plead to any crime if they are found guilty then there should be a standard sentence duration, and for rape.... 15 years is appropriate. The law is way too leniant in this country.

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There needs to be an incentive for a guilty plea, for the amount of money it saves, for the amount of grief it saves the victim and their family and for the potential psychological benefit that it gives culprit, perhaps a step towards rehabilitation. 

[Diddymow]

Halfing their sentence is just way too much though imo.

[stme]

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Diddymow wrote:
Halfing their sentence is just way too much though imo.

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I agree with you.  The thing is no matter how someone is raped a rape victims life is destroyed forever

[fenian]

I think hes right but it should be the womans choice, if she wants to accept the plea and avoid court which i assume a lot do, they just want to see justice done then they can do it.

If a woman wants to see it through in court and wants a bigger sentence she should be allowed.

I also agree with him that certain rapes are fundamentally different.

At the end of the day it should be the victims choice.

[stme]

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fenian wrote:

I think hes right but it should be the womans choice, if she wants to accept the plea and avoid court which i assume a lot do, they just want to see justice done then they can do it.

If a woman wants to see it through in court and wants a bigger sentence she should be allowed.

I also agree with him that certain rapes are fundamentally different.

At the end of the day it should be the victims choice.

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or the mans (Men get raped)

[DrTrouserPlank]

It's bandwagon jumping for sure.

Leaving aside the guilty plea-bargains, the issue he raises of distinguishing between a forceable rape and a "rape" in the sense of a 17 year old sleeping with a 15 year old where both consent to it is interesting. Unfortunately as soon as you talk about this particular scenario (which is oviously not "rape" to anyone living in the real world) you then end with all the childrens charities decrying the proposal as well.

Sadly the world is filled with do-gooders; most of whom do little good.

[fenian]

He was just using that as an example, there are scenarios that rape can happen that no real force was used or no real threats too..

For example a person might not have said "yes" but implied.

Sometimes people dont know the other persons age, specially at a club for younger teens, When i was a teen i taught some girls were 16 when they were not.

The court has always sentenced these types more lightly, and he was simply trying to say a violent forcefull rape in his opinion would never see such a light sentence.

[ProjectVRD]

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Gawge wrote:

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ProjectVRD wrote:

A guilty plea should have zero bearing on a case anyway. Regardless of how they plead to any crime if they are found guilty then there should be a standard sentence duration, and for rape.... 15 years is appropriate. The law is way too leniant in this country.

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There needs to be an incentive for a guilty plea, for the amount of money it saves, for the amount of grief it saves the victim and their family and for the potential psychological benefit that it gives culprit, perhaps a step towards rehabilitation. 

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Or perhaps a deterrent for pleading not guilty if you are in fact guilty? Such as an extra 10 years if the sentence is infact 15 years normally?

25 years behind bars is a big deterrent for criminals to plead not guilty. If the person is geniunely not guilty he/she will have nothing to worry about 99.9999999% of the time.

Also on the subject of a 17 year old being classed as a rapist for having sex with consenting 15 year old, I don't consider that rape. It might be hard to consider that guy or girl who was 17 of being a pedo as well, that sort of scenario is a bit of minefield for people on both sides of the fence as far as opinions are concerned. But the law does need urgent amending so that scenario is not classed as rape.