Level 3
Furys-embrace wrote:Makes you wonder where that 4 quid in tax you pay on a pack of 20 ciggies goes if its not being spent on oxygen tents for people with lung cancer. Oh yeah thats right, its used to pay for more GATSO speed cameras on roads that dont need them.
As far as I know tax on cigarettes does not cover the cost of covering the health risks that come with smoking, and they basically make no money out of them.
There is lung cancer sure, but there is also throat, mouth etc.
But there is also COPD, which is when your lungs become permanently damaged from smoke, Once you get COPD you have to quit work, sit around doing nothing, you get put on a big list of medication and if you keep smoking will eventually end up on oxygen and die.
Not every smoker will get lung cancer, but as of 2012 most smokers will get COPD and end up on disability. Its the 2nd biggest illness in the world.
People with COPD are often overweight, and often need joint replacements, they might get bad bones, etc etc..
3.5 million people in the UK have it and are given ongoing treatement as they continue to smoke and get wores and miss more days of work etc etc.
The doctors are not saying everyone should live a life free of indulgence, they are saying if your lifestyle has put you in a postion of bad health, then to fix those bad health problems you should be expected to change your lifestyle.
I think they have a point, if you have copd/lung cancer you should stop smoking.
Level 3
BettySwollocks92 wrote:every one's going to be getting psych services then. What about the people whose meds cause them to put weight on? what if they smoke a little each day too? or people with metal health problems which cause certain behaviours?
they'll be using this excuse to refuse treatments left right and centre and medical treatment should not be a privilidge of the rich who can afford to go private
I only mentioned one or two illnesses caused by smoking and overweight, I could list pages, the 2nd and 3rd biggest killers in the UK among men and women is stroke, caused by smoking and being overweight. COPD has 3.5million.
If you put on weight due to medication then thats not really a lifestyle problem so they wouldnt expect you to lose the weight, they should expect you to still try be healthy.
If someone has some mental health problem that causes them to over eat or smoke then they should be treated for that.
The problem isnt the odd person here and there, its the millions of people who are smoking, overweight heavy drinkers. Who visit the hospitals over and over and over and over until they die, missing work all the time.
Accidents happen us all, rarely, they dont cause people to miss much work, they can usually be patched up quickly, and a person can be sent on their way without ever returning to the hospital for the most part.
But with smokers/overweight/heavy drinkers, its never just one visit is it? after their first they usually spend the rest of their lives visiting hopsitals and missing work.
I know someone who has diagnosed mental health problems, and every doctor she meets takes that as an underlying medical condition and the same will continue to happen into the future,
But I also think if youre an alcoholic you shouldnt get a liver transplant before someone else.
Level 11
The NHS is supose to be for everyone
Yes cost's are spiraling in the NHS so now it is time for preventive action.
They do it to a little extent but not enough to take away NHS help for these people.
People that are effected by smoking and being obese need to tour schools and get across the message of the type of life they are living.
It may take a generation for it to work but it is a start.
You can't just deny a whole bunch of people treatment with out propper education about it and many of these people never had it and the od TV add is not enought.
Level 3
nah its 2012, every sane person knows what COPD/Strokes/Heart disease/Cancer/diabetes are.
People who suffer from these things are told to stop smoking, to eat healthy, a month later they are back in hospital the doctor asks have they given up? they say no.
They are given medication to help stop smoking, they are given advice, they are given gym memberships and details on healthy food.
A month later they are back in hospital, doctor asks did they give up they say no.
There comes a time when doctors must say "listen youre a lost cause, youre going to die. either die as cheaply as you can or start helping us help you and you will have the whole nhs at your disposal".
Do you people seriously think its ok for someone to smoke themselves into the grave while the tax payer pays hundreds of thousands trying to cure them?
Level 11
fenian wrote:nah its 2012, every sane person knows what COPD/Strokes/Heart disease/Cancer/diabetes are.Yes people have heard of them, many do not know what causes them
People who suffer from these things are told to stop smoking, to eat healthy, a month later they are back in hospital the doctor asks have they given up? they say no.Yes they are told to stop this and stop that. If the right education in the past could have help prevent many of these people from doing this. I am not just on about the recent past you can go back over 50 years for many of these people and if they knew then what they now do you realy think they wouyld have done this to them selves? No I don't that is why people need to be educated. It alright having Dr's saying quist or do this but they offer no or little help for them.
They are given medication to help stop smoking, they are given advice, they are given gym memberships and details on healthy food.They are now yes I have used it my self as a ex smoker. But it not just giving things away to stop smoking it's about the support and help for some one who has been smoking for 10, 20 , 30 40 ect years.
Yes people are given Gym mebership but do you know how many do not know this and many a ridiculed about it from many people with in the system
A month later they are back in hospital, doctor asks did they give up they say no.Not every one. I am not back in hospital I have stopped smoking. Some people can do it with little support but many can not and full support is not their.
There comes a time when doctors must say "listen youre a lost cause, youre going to die. either die as cheaply as you can or start helping us help you and you will have the whole nhs at your disposal".That's why it is best to educate people from being young and they can grow and learn with one of those by seeing what effects it has had on older people.
Do you people seriously think its ok for someone to smoke themselves into the grave while the tax payer pays hundreds of thousands trying to cure them?No i do not but the right support needs to be given and 90% of the time it is not.
Level 3
The vast majority of people who go out on a friday and saturday night in the city dont go on to develop liver disease, dont get in trouble during the night, dont go to hospital.
They are a profitable night.
The argument isnt about lifestyle, its about once the lifestyle becomes a lost cause should they waste money on the person? even if the person does not want to change their lifestyle despite help?
Whats wrong with placing some responsibility on people, drawing a line in the sand, "you can take things this far, any further and you will have to give up that lifestyle alltogether"
Shouldnt overweight people want to lose the weight? shouldnt smokers want to quit? they dont, so they should be forced.
Level 11
fenian wrote:The vast majority of people who go out on a friday and saturday night in the city dont go on to develop liver disease, dont get in trouble during the night, dont go to hospital.
They are a profitable night.
The argument isnt about lifestyle, its about once the lifestyle becomes a lost cause should they waste money on the person? even if the person does not want to change their lifestyle despite help?
Whats wrong with placing some responsibility on people, drawing a line in the sand, "you can take things this far, any further and you will have to give up that lifestyle alltogether"
Shouldnt overweight people want to lose the weight? shouldnt smokers want to quit? they dont, so they should be forced.
No they should not be forced.
That would cause more problems than it would solve.
The need to be supported and educated all the way.
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