General Discussion

[Occident]

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PatC_PSN wrote:

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Occident wrote:

The chief problem is that every game has one universal mechanic, winning or losing, beating a challange or being defeated by it, so even when a game has no violence there is always an element of competitiveness, you either defeat your AI or human opponent or you're the loser. So even with "relaxing games" such as Afrika, Burnout, Endless Ocean there's always a certain aggression to it.

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Good point, well made.

But do you not think that there must be a residual desensitising effect of violence in video games, given enough exposure - even for an otherwise intelligent, well-balanced person? Is that not an inevitable human characteristic?

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Oh that's such an expansive question lol but I'll give you a long answer if you can be bothered to read it.

The idea that video games can desensitise you to real world violence is analogous to brainwashing or conditioning. Can it be done to a well-balanced person? Yes, but only under extreme circumstances. So unless your someone who's forced to play extremely violent games against your will all day, day after day then I don't see virtual violence effecting someones view on real world violence.

That aside I will submit to the idea that younger developming minds may be effected by too much violence in video games but that's why retailers should enforce age restrictions and parents should be aware of what games their children are playing so they can decide for themselves if they should ignore the age certification.

No doubt you mean gamers in general though, do we as a group get desensitised to real-world violence by taking part in simulated violence? In my honest opinion the answer is no, we get desensitised to virtual violence. Video games are such a big part of our culture now that its just one of many ways that society indulges in violence and while that sounds distasteful its not new.  From kids mercilessly shooting each other in cowboys and indians or adults appluading a boxing match where you can literally kill another human being, there are plenty of ways society indulges in violence in a safe way.

Violence in games, literature, film and art is something we're bombarded with but the barrier between fantasy and reality is huge to any sane person. Witnessing people being killed in Saving Private Ryan does not make me think it would be fun to witness people being shot in real life, reading Macbeth has plotted to kill his king doesn't make me think it would be fun to commit regicide and shooting people in Battlefield in no way makes me think that being violent to another person is anything but horrible.

As someone who's been playin games for 20 + years now I can honestly say if something frustrating happens to me in the real world my usual answer is to role my eyes and say "typical!" The last idea in my mind is that the problem can be solved by shouting at someone and punching them in the face.

[curiousecat]

I guess that could fall under the age old addage "The Devil Made me do it" What it Boils Down to to is How Responsible are we? Do We Own the Behaviour or are we willing to make excuses for it? But in the younger people, I have personslly witnessed how my Nieces and Nephews react to games when they were younger. And a side note to tetris or other games "making us frustrated or angry", it is not the game its self that causes to be angry but how well we cope with the stress of playing the game. I Think there comes a time when one just needs to set a game aside and Walk away. Just like when we have a baby doing the P.U.R.P.L.E. Crying ( when a baby just criews for no apparent reason an has lead up to "Shaken Baby Syndrome" If we get angry and start throwing the Controller then the game is playing us. Ar any rate I think what the Auther is trying to get at is that Video games are the new Board Games. We Don't have to wory about losing game peices any ways lol.. I would love to see "Candy Land" Come to the PS3 lol. or "Parcheesee", "Shoots and ladders", or even "Canasta". Not Sure if Uno is on the PS3 or Not . So What I think the Author is trying to sa is Thavideo games have taken or are taking the place of Board games and the older generation are wanting games that are more suitable to there needs and parents want educationsl games as well I hear Japan has games that even teach about dating?

[michelle_tabor]

Walls of text make my eyes hurt.

There are a lot of "non-violent" games and always have been, but as the types of gamer increases there will be more games for those markets. One of the emerging markets (which nintendo targeted to perfection) is older women who like puzzles, or like the idea of a fitness game (there are a lot of people who have the wii primarily for wii-fit).

Gaming is starting to be seen as a ligitimate form of entertainment rather than something for kids or geeks alone in their bedroom, so developers are taking advantage of that and making games for new markets etc etc.

Personally I enjoy beating the hell out of bad/good guys (depending on game lol) as much as solving puzzles. You should hear the language I have been directing at GlaDOS in the last week though a lot worse than GTA can throw at me. I was shocked to heard a particular word used in La Noire though.

With regards to being desensitised to violence, I see all sorts of nasty stuff on csi (et al) and carry on eating my dinner, but if I saw it in real life I would be shocked and disgusted.

[PatC_PSN]

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Occident wrote:

Oh that's such an expansive question lol but I'll give you a long answer if you can be bothered to read it.

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I did indeed read it, and yes, it was expansive.

I'm no psychologist but I'm convinced that there is a desensitising effect from virtual violence - although I'd say that TV is a far more corrosive influence.

I fully accept that violence in any form is not a new concept. You refer to cowboys and indians, but I doubt that would be considered 'enough' by most people today. Isn't the fact that we seem to want far more extreme, graphic violence these days the effect of desensitising? And is it really wanting, or needing, to get the same effect?

You acknowledge that children may well be affected, but isn't turning 18 (or whatever) only a point on a continuum? Do we really all become immune on that day? All of us?

I'm not sure we are able to distinguish fantasy/media from reality to quite the extent that you suggest. Even fine, intelligent specimens of the human race such as ourselves probably don't manage that with the success that we like to believe.

I have no evidence to support these theories. I'm really just trying to rationalise the increased extremity of violence in society over recent decades.

[JaKeUtd]

Mortal Kombat makes me that angry that when my girlfriend asks politely "do you want a drink", I get in a mood with her haha.

But I still don't feel like killing someone... It's MK, I come to expect mood-swings, anger and frustration when I purchase it.

FIFA makes me hate life at times as well

[SpEJay]

To say my piece simply... All gaming produces emotional reactions of some sort, in the real world it works just the same but the relation of games & real world is not blurred at all in my perspective. I've been a gamer from the very beginning, seen it all & it does not deflect me into a personality disorder that's for sure. I've killed millions of things / avatars in many foul & disgusting ways... But i'm not effected negatively or having sensitivity issues... Death, pain & other suffering in the real world is something quite horrible, in games & other entertainment forms it can be amusing, childish & a ton more positive descriptions.... I often wonder how the patriotic army lovers of the real world can seriously be overlooked when gaming is nigh on always just 'sport', using the competitive nature with guns, cars etc is hardly comparable to real life at all. You're all responsible for distinguishing right & wrong, gaming has nothing wrong about it compared to say something as simple as accidentally banging a friend on the head causing a life threatening clot in the brain. GTA might have things that are not competitive but still brutal, you'd do it in the games but still never in the real world, no matter what the reasons are, you know ultimately it's wrong & as such it's just entertainment. You can't avoid the very knowledge of bad things existing, seeing or thinking or hearing them, it's how you handle yourself towards others that's important in the real world... We all have our moments of varying emotions, Fifa makes me angry, Rockband makes me proud, COD makes me competitive, etc.... But what makes someone hurtful, a murderer, a youth carrying a knife and butcher someone for a wallet? Emotions out of control? A thoughtless instinct? Something we "normal" folk can't begin to understand? Well it's not something i care to know, can't be justified at all to me, but i know no matter what is in a game, it will never make me want to do wrong to others, i seek love & war in games... In real life i hate war & want love & happiness. If games never had war, it would be just as fine for me as having GTA exist... As it happens gaming with Mario is the same as Niko, just good fun for me.

[SpEJay]

Damn... Appoligies for wall of text, ps3 doesn't like line breaks.. Will edit when i can on pc as it won't let me >_< Forgot you need to use code on ps3, been a while!

[THE_FORCE]

Is this one of those images made up from lots of words that when you look at it from a distance it looks like a famous person, like Marilyn Monroe etc. ?

Who is it supposed to be ? 

[PatC_PSN]

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SpEJay wrote:
To say my piece simply... All gaming produces emotional reactions of some sort, in the real world it works just the same but the relation of games & real world is not blurred at all in my perspective. I've been a gamer from the very beginning, seen it all & it does not deflect me into a personality disorder that's for sure. 

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Perhaps not an obvious personality disorder, but how would you ever know if there had been some kind of gradual, perhaps subtle, change? We may feel perfectly normal, but how could we ever tell if our 'normality' hadn't been in some way redefined? How we would have been in different circumstances? 

Of course we all like to believe that we are immune to this. Only someone with the IQ of a lettuce would confuse this stuff with reality, right? How could that possibly be applied to those of us that are highly evolved, intelligent human specimens with perfect powers of distinction? 

As a possible analogy, we like to think we're beyond the influence of advertisers too. Yet strangely, the advertisers are convinced otherwise.

[PatC_PSN]

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THE_FORCE wrote:

Is this one of those images made up from lots of words that when you look at it from a distance it looks like a famous person, like Marilyn Monroe etc. ?

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If you stare at it for long enough you can see the white skirt blowing up.

Or perhaps that was just me?