General Discussion

[PatC_PSN]

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druggedUK wrote:
I pretty much fully support wikileaks.


If anything I hope this will highlight even more the need for the Internet to be free and neutral, even if I don't agree with everything published, the lengths the american government is going to to try and stem the flow of these cables is ridiculous - and to think next year they're holding a summit on the importance of governments not censoring the internet- utter hippocrisy!

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Maybe next they will publish personal letters/emails/texts that you have sent to people over the years? 

I realise that is a different scenario but if you support a group of people making their own rules then you can hardly complain if and when they expand their scope beyond government communication.

[TheMiitch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDp1izlMQT0

About the most common sense I've heard yet.

And coming from a patriotic republican; two things I generally dislike very much.

[druggedUK]

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PatC_PSN wrote:

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druggedUK wrote:
I pretty much fully support wikileaks.


If anything I hope this will highlight even more the need for the Internet to be free and neutral, even if I don't agree with everything published, the lengths the american government is going to to try and stem the flow of these cables is ridiculous - and to think next year they're holding a summit on the importance of governments not censoring the internet- utter hippocrisy!

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Maybe next they will publish personal letters/emails/texts that you have sent to people over the years? 

I realise that is a different scenario but if you support a group of people making their own rules then you can hardly complain if and when they expand their scope beyond government communication.

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They are going to expand beyond government communication - they have details about a very large american bank which are supposed to be very damaging.

And the point is that the documents they're publishing are in the public interest (you may not personally be interested, and that is fair enough, but you can't really say that telling the people what their governments are doing, or what big multinationals operating in their countries and affecting peoples lives are doing, isn't in the public interest) - my texts and emails aren't, plus they aren't highlighting a democratic government taking part in illegal/immoral activity.

[PatC_PSN]

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druggedUK wrote:

And the point is that the documents they're publishing are in the public interest (you may not personally be interested, and that is fair enough, but you can't really say that telling the people what their governments are doing, or what big multinationals operating in their countries and affecting peoples lives are doing, isn't in the public interest) - my texts and emails aren't, plus they aren't highlighting a democratic government taking part in illegal/immoral activity.

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It doesn't matter if you consider your texts and emails to be in the public interest; if you believe it is OK for Wikileaks to make that call with other data then they may do so with yours. That was my point.

And I certainly can hold the view that it isn't, on balance, in the public interest to have a self-appointed, unaccountable group of people publishing whatever confidential material they feel like. I've not heard any revelation yet that has made me see any real value in what they are doing.

[druggedUK]

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PatC_PSN wrote:

And I certainly can hold the view that it isn't, on balance, in the public interest to have a self-appointed, unaccountable group of people publishing whatever confidential material they feel like.

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Like the press, pretty much? They can print what they want, they're self appointed - atleast atm wikileaks aren't putting a biased slant on things.

Anyway, the point as what is getting released atm is in the public interest, for now there's no problem with them being unaccountable - we shall certainly see if that changes.

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PatC_PSN wrote:

I've not heard any revelation yet that has made me see any real value in what they are doing.

US tax dollars ending up in the hands of people who trade young boys in afghanistan for sex?

Hilary clinton ordering people to collect biometric data (dna/fingerprints) along with personal info (credit card and bank details, personal phone numbers and emails) of UN officials?

Shell inserting itself in prominent positions in the Ethiopian government so they could influence the decisions of their government?

The worlds largest pharmaceutical company blackmailing a Nigerian attorney general so a case against a meningitis trial they had peformed on children would be dropped?

Pretty valuable stuff, and thats only the tip of the iceberg.

[drvixx]

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TheMiitch wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDp1izlMQT0

About the most common sense I've heard yet.

And coming from a patriotic republican; two things I generally dislike very much.

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I like this alot!

[Elite-Hawk]

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druggedUK wrote:

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PatC_PSN wrote:

And I certainly can hold the view that it isn't, on balance, in the public interest to have a self-appointed, unaccountable group of people publishing whatever confidential material they feel like.

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 Atleast atm wikileaks aren't putting a biased slant on things.

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Julian Assange comes across very anti-american, I would say he is putting a bias slant on things.

[Pin-Pin-Ire]

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druggedUK wrote:

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PatC_PSN wrote:

I've not heard any revelation yet that has made me see any real value in what they are doing.

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Copy and pasted from above box.

1.US tax dollars ending up in the hands of people who trade young boys in afghanistan for sex?

This happens when ever there is a war. The soldiers go in and fight and then expect to get some form of compensation from the locals for "Liberating" them. This is not a new thing and has happened through out the ages. The British empire was built on it. The only way to stop it is to somehow stop the "Manhood" of every soldier in the world. There's a reason why Brothels appear near army bases and camps. It's deplorable how these people are considered hero's at home when a large percentage are spreading their genes abroad or "taking" youths into their care

2. Hilary clinton ordering people to collect biometric data (dna/fingerprints) along with personal info (credit card and bank details, personal phone numbers and emails) of UN officials?

The UN is based in America is it not? Many of those officials have some form of diplomatic immunity if I'm not mistaken.They are just protecting their backs in case they are involved in a diplomatic incident on their soil.  It's no worse than keeping the data of Felons on file.

3.Shell inserting itself in prominent positions in the Ethiopian government so they could influence the decisions of their government?

This has happened in the past as well. Strangely enough banana companies were know for this, ergo the Banana Republic Go back through the centuries and you will see this happening over and over again. It's how the first world maintains itself. It exploits those in the third world for profit which returns to the native company. Eg. Nike, Apple, etc.

No matter how much you complain it won't stop and if it does stop, many of the luxury items you enjoy will no longer exist or be so expensive only the very wealthy can afford.

4.The worlds largest pharmaceutical company blackmailing a Nigerian attorney general so a case against a meningitis trial they had performed on children would be dropped?

No different to the tactics used across the world. Deplorable, yes. Unique, no.

This information isn't new. Go back through the years and files released will contain similar information. The only difference this time is that the information is fresh and not ready for the public to see. If similar things didn't happen before we wouldn't have the society of today.

The things they do are deplorable but there is nothing you can do unless you wish to live in a society where everything is open, including peoples personal information such as tax returns and criminal records.

No matter what way you look at it, we already have the blood of thousands on our hands for the society of today. There is a reason why the information doesn't get released. Do you really want to know whose blood is on your hands?

[druggedUK]

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Elite-Hawk wrote:

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druggedUK wrote:

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PatC_PSN wrote:

And I certainly can hold the view that it isn't, on balance, in the public interest to have a self-appointed, unaccountable group of people publishing whatever confidential material they feel like.

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 Atleast atm wikileaks aren't putting a biased slant on things.

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Julian Assange comes across very anti-american, I would say he is putting a bias slant on things.

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Assange is not Wikileaks.

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Pin-Pin-Ire wrote: 

Copy and pasted from above box.

1.US tax dollars ending up in the hands of people who trade young boys in afghanistan for sex?

This happens when ever there is a war. The soldiers go in and fight and then expect to get some form of compensation from the locals for "Liberating" them. This is not a new thing and has happened through out the ages. The British empire was built on it. The only way to stop it is to somehow stop the "Manhood" of every soldier in the world. There's a reason why Brothels appear near army bases and camps. It's deplorable how these people are considered hero's at home when a large percentage are spreading their genes abroad or "taking" youths into their care

2. Hilary clinton ordering people to collect biometric data (dna/fingerprints) along with personal info (credit card and bank details, personal phone numbers and emails) of UN officials?

The UN is based in America is it not? Many of those officials have some form of diplomatic immunity if I'm not mistaken.They are just protecting their backs in case they are involved in a diplomatic incident on their soil.  It's no worse than keeping the data of Felons on file.

3.Shell inserting itself in prominent positions in the Ethiopian government so they could influence the decisions of their government?

This has happened in the past as well. Strangely enough banana companies were know for this, ergo the Banana Republic Go back through the centuries and you will see this happening over and over again. It's how the first world maintains itself. It exploits those in the third world for profit which returns to the native company. Eg. Nike, Apple, etc.

No matter how much you complain it won't stop and if it does stop, many of the luxury items you enjoy will no longer exist or be so expensive only the very wealthy can afford.

4.The worlds largest pharmaceutical company blackmailing a Nigerian attorney general so a case against a meningitis trial they had performed on children would be dropped?

No different to the tactics used across the world. Deplorable, yes. Unique, no.

This information isn't new. Go back through the years and files released will contain similar information. The only difference this time is that the information is fresh and not ready for the public to see. If similar things didn't happen before we wouldn't have the society of today.

The things they do are deplorable but there is nothing you can do unless you wish to live in a society where everything is open, including peoples personal information such as tax returns and criminal records.

No matter what way you look at it, we already have the blood of thousands on our hands for the society of today. There is a reason why the information doesn't get released. Do you really want to know whose blood is on your hands?

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1. That isn't really what I was getting at. There was a story about an american company throwing a party for the afghan police, in which 'Bacha Boys' were invited to dance. Bacha boys is a 'tradition' of getting young boys, dressing them in female clothing and make up, making them dance for men and then basically auctioning them off to the highest bidder, which usually ends up in rape.

2. I believe the controversy came from her asking for foreign diplomats/officials' DNA - they don't have any right to be doing that, it's a bit different to having your dna taken by your own government because you work on their behalf for the UN, or because you have committed a crime in that country.

3&4. Just because this stuff has happened before/will keep happening, doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to know if a company I buy things from/work for/etc is taking part in underhanded measures which personally I don't believe in.

Like I have said before, you can't keep comparing this with private information of individuals. You can't tell me that knowing whether Mr Jones down the road does some dogey dealings with his bank account is just as important as whether the people you have elected to run your country are involved in dogey stuff too? It doesn't have to be either all open or all secret - knowing the secrets of those that govern my country and have a large impact on my life is much different to knowing/accessing the secrets of every tom, ***** and harry who don't have an effect on my life one bit.

Also, no-ones blood is on my hands.

[Elite-Hawk]

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druggedUK wrote:

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Elite-Hawk wrote:

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druggedUK wrote:

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PatC_PSN wrote:

And I certainly can hold the view that it isn't, on balance, in the public interest to have a self-appointed, unaccountable group of people publishing whatever confidential material they feel like.

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 Atleast atm wikileaks aren't putting a biased slant on things.

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Julian Assange comes across very anti-american, I would say he is putting a bias slant on things.

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Assange is not Wikileaks.

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Hes the editor in chief and founder.