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20 May 2012
By Kuklinski2012

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LBP/LBP2 & 'CREATE' all sell a 'LIE' that you can create your own game.

38 Replies 1,519 Views Created 20-05-2012

Here is all that is required to TRULY CREATE YOUR OWN GAME, it's quite simple really!

All that's needed is the following - things that have already featured in previous games, some for even lesser powered computers. The following 10 options would, finally give us gamers FULL CREATIVE CONTROL to make and play in a virtual world.

A true Little-Big-Planet for me would be this...

1: A pre-designed set landscape/area to free roam in with all the various kinds of scenery; City/street area, Dust bowl desert area, woodland forrest area, jungle area and beach/water area. The best example of this would be GTA San Andreas for the PLAYSTATION 2. That's right! Even the power of the playstation 2 was enough to create all of these area/landsacape components. To allow for more space in the game for you to create your own games, this area of land will be fixed, although you will have the option of being able to add hills and water - a function that featured in the playstation '2' game; Jurassic Park Operation Genesis. There could also be underground areas, such as like the subway beneath the city of GTA 4, this area could be below the city/street area of the landscape. Beneath the jungle area could be a hellish looking pit of fire and volcanic lava - like in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Beneath the dust bowl desert area, there could be a burried space craft like something out of Aliens - a complex that would give you the feeling of being lost in space. Under the water sea area could be a new world upon the sea bed. The only requirement to make all this possibe, would be to make this entire landscape of various designs only the size of the 'middle' main island of the multiple islands that make Liberty City in GTA 4. With this reduction in scale, there would be no problem fitting in all of the games other creative features.

2: Four different basic templates for creating your character, a) Human template (male/female) b) Animal template and c) Alien/Robot template. Using these basic and blank templates, you could adjust them to look like 'ANYBODY' or 'ANYTHING' - thus creating your very own unique character. Whether you want to make Brandon South's Superman or Benicio Del Toro's Wolfman or a Great White Shark! The best example of this would be the character create mode of the SVR (Smackdown verses Raw) games for the Playstation 3. They allow you to edit and alter every aspect of your characters appearance, skin tone, hair design/length/colour, teeth, eye colour/size/shape, jaw and facial structure, even the size the nostrils, not mention a wide variety of clothing items and other attachments that too can all be custimized.

3) A moves list for the characters you create. The best example of this would, again, be SVR create mode, when adding moves to your original created characters. This would allow the player to fully customize everything about how his player moves and the actions availble. However, again, to save some space for more creative power in the game, there wouldn't be a need for such a wide range of 'wrestling' moves as in SVR. Instead, you could have just a few of each kind of move. For example; Punches available - Heavy hook, Snappy jab, Straight punch, Uppercut. Jumps available - Normal jump, Bigger jump, Super jump. Or jumping power/distance could be down to how long you hold in the button as with LBP/LBP2. You could also chose to make one of your buttons controls allow your character to take off from the ground so you can fly like superman.

4) Create and modify your vehicle, starting from 7 different basic templates; a) Car. b) Truck. c) Bike. d) Board. e) Plane. f) Helicopter. g) Boat/Ship. The best example of this would be how you can create and alter your car in GTA San Andreas for the playstation 2. Although obviously with the advanced power of a playstation 3 we could have many more options and much more creative control. This could allow you to create any vehicle you like, from the 'black tank' batmobile in Batman Begins, to the Terminators Harley Davidson. At the end of this, chose vehicle speed, engine noise/roar etc,

5) Create you weapons/tools for your game. Whether you wish to create a minigun to shoot with, or simply a parachute or crapple hook. The crapple hook (which features in LBP/LBP2) would, in this game, be based more upon the Spiderman games for Playstation 2 - allowing you to swing and attach to buildings etc. Place ladders, ropes to climbs where ever you want them in your game. Huts/Bunkers/barricades etc. Creating weapons, you could be given a few templates, like 'rifle temple, hand gun template etc - allowing you to litterally create your own guns - be them real or straight from your imagination. At the end chose gun shot noise/power level etc. Number of rounds per minute. Bullet projectile speed would be set to the same realistic degree of GTA 4.

6) An option that then allows you to make an abomination of all of the above. To create a transformer-like creature that is both functional like a man/robot and also drives like a car or flys like a helicopter etc. Mixing together parts from your vehicle with your created character. This would be 'ABSOLUTE' creative control. Think of Optimus Prime for example.

7) Create your games area characters. You may want to create a whole bunch of aliens to slay. Or robots. Or mahybe you'd like to create  more people/humans that walk around your city/land/areas like in GTA 4. Once you've created how your people/creatures look/appear , you could then customize how the react to certain things, for example, when you shoot one, the rest run away like in GTA 4. Or you might one to make people like the rage infected zombies of  28 Days/Weeks later - that chase after you like their possessed by satan. You could then also select how you people/creatures/friends/foes come apart when you attack them or if they come apart at all. You may want them to explode into peices, or for their limbs/heads to fly off when you shoot them (The Punisher - Playstation 2) etc. Or if they're robots - to just crash - what ever you have in mind, you can chose the option and edit in all the bloody details you like.

8) Create special animations for really specific actions. Let's say you want to be able to garotte your enemies in the game, by throwing a wire across their neck, turning and using your body to lift them off their feet, hanging over your back - like in the game Hitman Contracts for Playstation 2, then you could create your 'people' in your game to react with this animation/or rag-doll mode effect when hanging them. Or if you wish the impale them like Vald Tepes Dracula, then you can do that too and watch them stick to the pole and slide down it. Or you may simply want to create a back flip or cartwheel animation movement. Or have all the people crawl down on their hands and knees. The best example of this, again, would be with SVR in the create mode when creating an animation. In SVR you can create an animated 'taunt' then apply it when adding moves, some taunts, like back flips will also work as moves. This same principle can be added to the games creative controls, allowing unique moves both for your own character and the other characters you create in your game.

9) Add music, programe playlists etc. This can be acheived via ripping from CD's with your PS3 and selecting them to feature from the game that will load and play them during play. This was a function that featured in the latest SRV games fro PS3, as you could chose your wrestlers entrace music from songs ripped onto your PS3. So, if playing as superman for example, you can add the superman theme and fly away! If you want to be really specific, you could always record any kind of back ground noise you want, say with an mp3 player, create your own music file with windows movie maker, then burn it to a CD and rip it to your PS3 and make that your background theme - be it traffic or crowds shouting etc. You could also specifically select a different theme track for each area of the game. This would also save the game from having to store lots of music on the cd, creating ever more room from full creative control. Also giving the game more free space for creation, would be that there would be no story sequences - that fill the GTA games, no narrations from Steven Fry! No waste of disc space what so ever.

10)  Final details. Select how your score works on your game. For example, when killing the people/enemies or innocents in your city, just as with GTA games, the body count piles up. The more people you kill - that is your score. Or you can select for them to drop money and your expanding bank account is your score. Or the score could be based upon how much the value of damage you do is, this also featured in GTA game stats. But since this would be a free roaming game (the best games there are) your score would just be a personal account of your playing history. Not something you have to beat or top with anyone else. Select how your city functions, where your created cars will spawn, what cars will spanw ehere and how often etc. Same for people. Also you could add the option; Do bodies remain and stack up or flash and disappear. Or to what level or amount of bodies stack up before the first and second start to vanish to make room for the ever adding amount - like in GTA  4. All these details and more could be fine tuned and completed in this tenth and final step.

Now, if they made a game like that - they could finally 'HONESTLY' say and claim that you could 'CREATE YOUR OWN GAME'!

LBP/LBP 2 is so silly, tedious and childish. Why anyone would want to make a game based on the goofy components available in LBP/LBP2 is beyond me. It's an utter waste of time and a massive FAIL!

They could at least create a new game called LBP 3 - 'The Adult Verson', restricted R. I don't even care about sharing my game and getting it online. If I want to do that I'll record it from the TV screen and show what I made on youtube. This should be about creating your own video game, what ever you have in your minds eye to do.

For me, I'd like to create a game where you play as Michael Myers from the halloween movies, and another game where u play as the T-Rex from The Lost World - going about town eating every one. And a game where you play as Richard Kuklinski and serial kill the cities face. But that's me! I like violent video games. But creation is the main thing and this idea, with these ten features could make this dream of creative control a reality.

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05
/16

ian111199

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Btw you need to get on twitter

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Re: LBP/LBP2 & 'CREATE' all sell a 'LIE' that you can create your own game.

[ Edited ]


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/16

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Osvaldo, you had an advertisement once? For Mexican Gold Rush? Wow.... AND LOOK WHERE YOU ARE NOW!!! =D

 

You never cease to inspire me. Thanks, man. If asking for help on the forums did the trick for you, well... It must be able to help me get some acknowledgement. Thanks!

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You can force the 'sackbot' player into a controllinator to hide them and transfer controls to another object that is controlled by movers and emitters and rockets and what-not. But to achieve genuinely interesting gameplay, you'll need to really get to grips with the logic options in the game, and you are stuck with moving in three 2D planes.

 

@ian111199 - please don't resort to bad-mouthing people. If you think it's a troll, best to ignore them. If the thread degenerates into exchange of insults I'll request that it is closed.

 

@osvaldo_sniper - I've told you once and so has Elmatto. Don't push your luck with these repeated advertising posts.

 

@Kuklinski, the only way you're going to realise your dream is to learn to program, at least to some level. No 'game creator' could give you that much freedom without requiring you to code some stuff, even if the coding is disguised with a nice object-oriented visual interface that children can enjoy. Like the logic in LBP. If you seriously want it, look into serious modding stuff like Source or Quake mods. Otherwise you're just fantasising, and rather contrarily you're expressing your violent fantasies in a forum for people who enjoy LBP, which hardly seems appropriate.

 

It's clear that you're unlikely to get what you want from LittleBigPlanet. Even if MediaMolecule were open to the idea of a more 'adult'-oriented game, they wouldn't pay any attention to your suggestions because their lawyers forbid them from reading other people's game ideas for fear that they are accused of stealing your ideas and being taken to court.

 

Plus what you suggest sounds awful. I mean, I wouldn't even be able to create a snooker game with your proposed engine.

 


Kuklinski2012 wrote:

LBP/LBP 2 is so silly, tedious and childish. Why anyone would want to make a game based on the goofy components available in LBP/LBP2 is beyond me.


 

I couldn't disagree more. Childish it certainly is not. It's a very professional product. It revels in the child-like, certainly. Like the best entertainment for kids, it is entertaining to adults as well. As a 38-year old I find this child-like game engaging and charming and entertaining and I delight in the invention that is inherent in the create mode.

 

You give the impression that you are drawn exclusively to the violent and nasty, and you are unwilling to give any time or recognition to any entertainment that is fluffy and light-hearted. If so, LBP is definitely not for you.

 

Re: LBP/LBP2 & 'CREATE' all sell a 'LIE' that you can create your own game.

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Let me tell you this, I laughed at what you are suggesting.

 

You seem to completely overestimate the amount of space available on a PS3 game, or underestimate what your game would take up.

 

Also, you seem to not quite understand how games are made. Something this in-depth would require years and years of hellish development, and to simplify a model creator from something like Maya down to the levels you suggest would be virtually impossible.

 

You know what, I might just disassemble your points in order.

 

  1. There's a reason that there isn't that much land in GTA or inFamous, and that's because land is complex. It has models, textures and often animations, especially with the water and lava you suggest, which would end up taking up HUGE amounts of memory. Even just having them be loaded one area at a time would still mean that they have to be on the disk somewhere, even when not rendered. Don't forget that Blu-ray disks have around 50GB of space on them. And anyway, surely pre-designed landscapes means that the game isn't actually "yours", which goes against the whole "your own game" thing.
  2. Humans, animals, robots and aliens can look very, very different. And each tiny difference would have to be modelled by someone and then stored on the disk. A model can take days or even weeks to create, so unless this is a 100-year project you envision then I don't see this being likely. And doing that for clothing and accessories AS WELL? I pity the person given that task.
  3. Moves? You realise all of those would have to be animated by someone, same as the models have to be modelled, right? You also seem to have a very narrow mind for creating the violent game you want. What if someone wanted to make a dancing game? You have to have several dance moves, as well as the punching moves, building animations, riding/driving styles, flight paths...
  4. Vehicle? What if they don't want a vehicle? And if they do, I again refer to my modelling arguement.
  5. Amount of possible weapons and tools? Again, modelling, but also animations for when they're being used, physics adjustments and calculations, terrain destruction etc.
  6. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
  7. See 2, but also you'll need MORE animations, textures, and a hell of a lot of AI.
  8. This would require a professional-level animation program to prevent all of the problems that come from animating a model, most notably clipping and other stuff I don't quite understand. This sort of software is costly, so to aquire one would cause this game to cost somewhere between £500 and £1000, if not more.
  9. This is the most realistic part of your suggestion. However, if you want to share your creations, even on YouTube, you'll have copyright issues coming out of your ears. And no story? What about people who want to have a story? Just because you don't want one doesn't mean others won't. Also, I'm pretty sure hating and insulting Stephen Fry is punishable by death in every country in the world.
  10.  OK, now you're restricting this to being a free-roaming game? They are not the best type of game, that's just your opinion. What if someone wants to create a 2D platforming level? Do you just say "no, that type of game is bad, make a sandbox game"? That's not creating your own game, that's creating someone else's game. And the amount of ways you could track a score...

You don't understand LBP at all. It is DESIGNED to be silly and childish, it's done so that people of all ages can play it. You can create your own games - just look at the amount of games out there right now! LBP is all about constraints, and overcoming them. Otherwise it'd be no fun at all.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is that, whilest your idea is nice, it's REDICULOUSLY unrealistic. I hope you can understand why.

Re: LBP/LBP2 & 'CREATE' all sell a 'LIE' that you can create your own game.

Still not dead. Probably.


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ian111199

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I believe the cartoonish games that are silly are much better than other games such as Infamous or GTA
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02
/16

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In responce to Elmatto753

 

1. I repeat, "The only requirement to make all this possibe, would be to make this entire landscape of various designs only the size of the 'middle' main island of the multiple islands that make Liberty City in GTA 4. With this reduction in scale, there would be no problem fitting in all of the games other creative features."

I refuse to believe how you say it's not possible.

 

2. You just have a very defeatist attitude. In Smackdown VS Raw games for PS3, and even PS2, you start by selecting one of two basic templates, male or female, then you select from a larger list of templates, asian, white, black, spanish looking etc (this isn't just a change of skin, but facial and eye structure etc), then you customize everything else - face/head morphing, hair style/length/colour, eye colour/size/shape, teeth, then body morphing, skin aging, skin colour (any colour) height, width, fat/slim/muscular degree of build, you can alter everything. Then with the clothes, most items you can alter again, for example the same red shirt may be open or shut. You can change and alter the every clothing or shoe colour aswell. Or chose to have no clothes at all, to appear naked, simply chose a basic blending colour of underwear, a design that doesn't stand out in texture, then alter the colour to the same of the skin, whatever that may be, if you're making a ninja turtle then green etc.

All I suggested was you make just a few more templates. And considering how this game won't feature a large number of pre-designed and detailed wrestlers like Hulk Hogan etc, it's obvious that it wouldn't be a problem to 'fit in' more templates. Easy and simple. You know it, I know it.

 

3. Yes, moves, just like in SVR games, there are moves of plenty, so by the time you fully customise your characters moves list, he will be uniquely different and a character you created, regardless of whether someone else created the animated movements. Of course someone did, games are created and sold by game makers just like LBP. If someone wants to make a dance game, then they are gay and should stick to LBP. My game of violence could perhaps be approprietly titled: Free Will. Meaning if you wish to go around like a peaceful pacifist then you can, but since that would be boring, I bet everyone would go around killing and f###king sh## up. BTW, in the GTA game Ballard of Gay Tony,  you can dance in the clubs. You might like this game?

 

4. Yes vehicle. I think you misunderstand my thread. I'm not talking about having a blank format to create your own sonic the hedgehog game, you could probably do that with this LBP nonsense. I'm talking about starting on a landscape based on common features, cars, hills, roads, buildings, a place where you can do anything you want - just like in GTA only more so. Basically my idea is GTA compressed into a smaller area alowing for a lot more creative options. How you look, the vehicles you create yourself. You don't have a modelling arguement so there's nothing to refer to.

 

5. The terrain destruction could be pretty simple - bullets make holes in walls and break windows, bombs and explosives blow sh## up. Easy. Die Hard for the PS1 acheived this.

 

6. Well Ok, perhaps this would be pushing it. But every thing else is very doable.

 

7. No, you see my 2. It's very doable. In SVR you can arrange a royal rumble where every created 'superstar' you have made all rush to the ring and fight at the same time. There's no reason why this scenario could not be achieved in a free roaming enviroment aswell. Especially a free roaming enviroment condensed in scale.

 

8. Nonsense. Again, let me remind you of the glorious wonders of Smackdown Vs Raw.... In SVR you can create a taunt animation. Again, you start with a basic template, for example standing/crouching etc, then you apply moves, true they are pre-designed, but, again, with the wide variety to select from, there's virtually no animation you can't make. You can also select what 'part' of th animation can 'impact' your opponent. For example, I once made an animation where the character throws a punch, then backflips away backwards and gains safe distance. This worked during gameplay after I cusomized the move to the move list for the selected created character, and I was able to emply use of this 'taunt move' in actually game play to strike an opponant and then dodge backward. So, keeping in this in mind, with a game I'm suggesting having even more lists of movement options available to created you animations, you could easily do this. No need for spending £500-£1000 on a game as you said, just the usual price of a game, like the GTA games or SVR games. All very doable.

 

9. Yes, again it's doable. Finally you admit something can work. No I don't care to share on youtube and if I do I would simply camcord and upload, so copyright could kiss my star. Fight the power!

BTW, I don't hate Steven Fry, I just don't have any interest in him and didn't enjoy listening to his voice instructing me in LBP as if I was a tot. That's when I realized playing this game above the age of 12 is just wrong. Perhaps you'd like to sit on steven frys knee and have him tell you some bedtime stories?

 

10. No, not now, but from the start. My very first point highlighted this concept as a free roaming game. GTA player stats is the best way of keeping score - people killed, via knife, shotgun, sniper rifle etc, cars exploded, estimate damage cost to the city etc. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

 

 

I'd be happy playing GTA for the PS3 really, but those games suck, as they have too many cops pestering you over everything you do like wasps, then you are forced to play as and expected tp associate with some retard character like a man who goes around running errands for homosexuals, junkies and numbskulls. The story lines in GTA bore me and I skip every one of them. Also, the game makers got lazy, and you couldnt even swim under water as you could in san andreas etc. Basically GTA without restrictions and being able to make yourself and other characters from scratch.

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03
/16

dadrester

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riiiight... I'll not go into the details of each point on this because it's kind of pointless me saying what's been said before but your wish list only really caters to a few genres of game. As someone already put it, you couldn't even create a pool game within it.

 

A better analogy would be the transition between LBP and LBP2. The former was really only any good to do platformers. Sure there were a few novel examples of people breaking outside of the box with very clever thinking, but the tools simply didn't allow you do do much more. A little like the suggestions in your engine, which for the most part would only allow you to make character based 3rd person action/combat/driving games. How would I use your tools to do something as simple as OXO (noughts and crosses), or more complex things like a match 3 puzzle game or tetris? It seems you have a very specific game in mind that'd you'd like to play, but this is not really the ethos behind LBP.

 

The biggest fundamental change LBP2 brought to the table was the host of logic chips, that are a cleverly disguised form of visual scripting language. I've used a few professional game editors in my time with this same functionality and I can tell you that the chips system is almost identical to Kismet (in Unreal engine) Uscript (a plugin for unity) and FlowGraph (the same thing again in Cryengine). Graphics aside it will let you do a massive range of things. As inspiration have a look at some of the arcade levels in LBP2 (here's a quick plug for mine http://lbp.me/v/x92qw0) which have collections of games with huge variation in play styles and genre.

 

The second point which has been pointed out is one of scale, memory and performance. Yes something like GTA3 can now run on smartphones, however it's been highly engineered and tested so that when a little block loads in you don't see the massive holes in the environment as one part streams into memory and the next streams out. Sure you could give the player occlusion tools and to some extent try and have a system in place which does this for you (I’m sure LBP optimises and culls physics, lighting and geometry that's not on screen somehow), but it would be a huge task when you start introducing massive varieties of assets into one small area. Have you ever noticed in something like GTA or Just Cause that when you get in a certain car more of those cars begin to appear? Something like GTA uses a lot of smoke and mirrors in order to achieve this feeling of vastness. And it's done in various ways - through clever art, level design and code optimisation.

 

The next and probably biggest problem is one that I think you'll probably dismiss straight away. You want to create a large open world game with loads of content. Rockstar North is a studio with around 200 developers working on a game for 3-5 years. Even if you just took the level design team you're still looking at a team of probably 20-30 professionals working at least 8 hours a day 5 days a week for 3 years to populate the game and make it fun. I can see the average user created level from your game being incredibly boring and extremely unpolished, and therein lies the main problem. No one would want to play it.

 

There are games out there already on console that might interest you though, which have level editors, Far Cry 2 for example, will allow you to build levels using its very functional editor and add in AI spawn points etc, and I believe Infamous 2 has a mission editor that allows you to set up various scenarios.

 

Or if you're serious you could try your hand at UDK (the free version of unreal engine). It's very versatile and if you've already got a grasp on the concepts in the chips of LBP2 (which judging by your language you don't) you should already have a grounding in kismet.

 

I completely disagree though, that LBP2 or LPB vita don't allow you to make complete games. As is so often the case with creativity, the only thing really restricting people's imaginations is their lack of tallent.

Re: LBP/LBP2 & 'CREATE' all sell a 'LIE' that you can create your own game.



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dadrester

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*talent
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Welcome to the Community Dadrester. lol
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02
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Kuklinski2012

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Nonsense. I'm right. You're wrong. As always. Read over my posts again if you care to see why.

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Elmatto753

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Kuklinski2012 wrote:

Nonsense. I'm right. You're wrong. As always. Read over my posts again if you care to see why.



He's given up. That's as good as saying "I know I'm wrong, but I'm too arrogant to say it." in my book. We're done here.

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Still not dead. Probably.


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QuietlyWrong

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This thread was dead a long time ago. Only people's need to have the last word has kept it alive this long. :(

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I'd be happy for Stephen Fry to read me a bedtime story. I mean, seriously- That guy has one epic voice.

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What is this? Someone butthurt over that you play as "sackthing"? The game was mainly made for kids first. But since they didnt get into create mode so much, i think Mm is now focusing on the older people. But otherwise, check the box art. It says 7+, which means only child friendly stuff. If you want GTA then you got the wrong game.

 

I dont think that create your own game is a lie. Sure we maybe cant create COD or GTA. But we can remake flash games and small PSN games. Look "Plants Vs Zombies" got recreated. And many more.

 

And you can create your own game. But not a game like GTA or COD.

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Re: LBP/LBP2 & 'CREATE' all sell a 'LIE' that you can create your own game.

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Elessar_Telemnar
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Totally love that the epitome of character creation is Smackdown vs. Raw.

I mean, never mind games like APB, that feature truly outstanding customisation options.  No, the feature peaked with a god-awful PS2 game

 

E_T

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SpikeStarkey

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SpikeStarkey
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Elessar_Telemnar wrote:

Totally love that the epitome of character creation is Smackdown vs. Raw.

I mean, never mind games like APB, that feature truly outstanding customisation options.  No, the feature peaked with a god-awful PS2 game

 

E_T




<s> Totally. The Clumsy controls, the Limited amounts of colors and clothing, are Completely the Future. Forget abou the SoulCalibur Editors, the entire Sims Series (< what a joke), Spore, PlayStation Home, countless titles by Countless other companies... Logisticaly speaking, Smackdown VS Raw, was and is the standard in both character editors and videogames today </s>

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Malamo999

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Malamo999
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The thing I think you are failing to understand is that it isn't, technically, possible to make a fully-functional game inside of a game. That would be pretty pointless, too, as that's what SDKs are there for. LittleBigPlanet 2 gives you the opportunity to create minigames. Not the next sequel to Mass Effect! I've seen Chess and loads of other board games recreated, multiplayer games of Hide 'n Seek... the list goes on. There is a huge difference between a game and a minigame, but I can understand what you're trying to say as the LittleBigPlanet website didn't make that very clear... however, it was pretty much common sense since the beginning, so... :P

Re: LBP/LBP2 & 'CREATE' all sell a 'LIE' that you can create your own game.

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MaxDiehard

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MaxDiehard
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If you really think you need all that to make your own game in LBP instead of making use of what you have, you clearly lack imagination.

 

 

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