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15 Sep 2009
By woobieizer

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EULA Changes you or Watchdog may have Noticed.

36 Replies 1,318 Views Created 15-09-2009

Double Standard for EULA version 1.2 and 1.3 

 

Look at how this may affect your rights.

 

Version 1.3 taken from Here

 

Version 1.2 taken from Here

 

Which one did you "Submit" to? How does this affect your PS3 system? Why are there 2 different EULA?

 

When will consumers wake up and see the infringement?  I hope WatchDog noticed this as well!

 

 

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Probably both since I was sent an email about the updated EULA and agreed to it.
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PirateThom wrote:
Probably both since I was sent an email about the updated EULA and agreed to it.

 

Same here. Don't think there were any underhand tactics going on.
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:smileyindifferent::Help:

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Pza266 wrote:

PirateThom wrote:
Probably both since I was sent an email about the updated EULA and agreed to it.

 

Same here. Don't think there were any underhand tactics going on.

Why do you think you were sent the email, since the PC download link mentioned above only requires you to accept version 1.2?  

 

For someone that took the time to read the EULA, and apply the System Software update to the PS3, and then recieve an email advising you that you must now accept the newer version, why is the page not updated to reflect the legitimance of said email?  Can the acceptance by email void any malice found, present or furture with the stated verbiage?

 


3. SERVICES AND UPDATES

1.3

Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you are online, and others may be available to you through SCE's online network or authorized channels.

 

 

1.2

Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you sign onto SCE's online network, and others may be available to you through SCE's website or authorized channels. 

 


 

4. COLLECTION OF INFORMATION/ AUTHENTICATION

 

1.3

SCE may retrieve information about your hardware and software for authentication, copy protection, account blocking, system monitoring/diagnostics, rules enforcement, game management, marketing purposes, tracking user behavior and other purposes. The information collected is not your personally identifying information.

 

1.2

SCE may retrieve information about your hardware and software for authentication, copy protection, account blocking, system monitoring/diagnostics, rules enforcement, game management and other purposes. The information collected is not your personally identifying information and there is no way to identify you from this information.

 


 

Why would Sony Send out an email?  What if users had relavant information as to what these and "other purposes's" service features actually boiled down to in laymans terms? Would we be so anxious to jump on the "I'm first to download/install verX" Software? Is the trade off of you privacy worth larger icons, lost game chime, clunky friends lists, non disable..able info bar, fizz, 14 days without Uncharted, Batman, etc?

 

Why don't we get a "Change list" prior to the go live of an update?  Why not expect seperate types of System Software.. ie. ones that fix bugs: non binding. to ones that enrich the UI: binding.

 

Thanks for reading, thinking, and answering your own questions consiciosly!

 

Edit:

4. COLLECTION OF INFORMATION/ AUTHENTICATION (last sentence 12 point)

Message Edited by woobieizer on 15-09-2009 05:22 AM
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04
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Pza266

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I definitely got an email from Sony stating they were changing the EULA. I read it and signed it and tbh with you don't really care about any of it.

 

Why do you think Sony are wrong over this? If you don't agree with it don't use PSN.

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:smileyindifferent::Help:

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02
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Pza266 wrote:

I definitely got an email from Sony stating they were changing the EULA. I read it and signed it and tbh with you don't really care about any of it.

 

Why do you think Sony are wrong over this? If you don't agree with it don't use PSN.


But what if you did not like the direction Sony was heading? Do you think allowing my purchased game collection going to waste is a alternative? 

 

Why must it be our only choice?  Why would Britain have BBC/Watchdog gunning the cooperation's and defending consumer rights?

 

What entity is there to disagree with, when you look, digest, and understand what privacy you are forfeiting on not willing to forfeit?

 

One payed for the system, game, and now must agree to with a inantimate agreement, binding you to forfeit your rights and privacy. 

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04
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Its the terms and conditions of playing on PSN. As I said, if you don't agree don't play on PSN. I didn't realise you had to be signed in to play all your games. In fact you can probably still enjoy 95% without ever going on the internet.

 

Watchdog are certainly not investigating them over this so I don't know what gave you that impression. It isn't Britain that has the BBC and Watchdog going after Sony, its a few disgruntled customers.

 

I have forfeited my privacy and I'm enjoying playing games on PSN. If you feel so strongly simply stop using PSN. Simple.

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:smileyindifferent::Help:

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04
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Pza266 wrote:

Its the terms and conditions of playing on PSN. As I said, if you don't agree don't play on PSN. I didn't realise you had to be signed in to play all your games. In fact you can probably still enjoy 95% without ever going on the internet.

 

Watchdog are certainly not investigating them over this so I don't know what gave you that impression. It isn't Britain that has the BBC and Watchdog going after Sony, its a few disgruntled customers.

 

I have forfeited my privacy and I'm enjoying playing games on PSN. If you feel so strongly simply stop using PSN. Simple.


Couldn't agree more :)

If you don't like PSN T&C. Don't use it, Simplez

I don't like the windows licensing, the conditions, and the rules etc. So you know what I did? I stopped using Microsoft Windows, and changed my OS (To GNU/Linux)

You can do the same thing OP except with PSN.
Message Edited by Biker_J on 15-09-2009 10:54 AM
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[ Edited ]

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02
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woobieizer

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Pza266 wrote:

Its the terms and conditions of playing on PSN. As I said, if you don't agree don't play on PSN. I didn't realise you had to be signed in to play all your games. In fact you can probably still enjoy 95% without ever going on the internet.

 

Watchdog are certainly not investigating them over this so I don't know what gave you that impression. It isn't Britain that has the BBC and Watchdog going after Sony, its a few disgruntled customers.

 

I have forfeited my privacy and I'm enjoying playing games on PSN. If you feel so strongly simply stop using PSN. Simple.


I really do appreciate your candid responses and genuine courtesy.  I stand corrected on using Britain in a lose manner, but since the BBC is not available outside the UK, I just wrote Britain. Yet it is my hope that some questioning could be raised. Specifically as to how a cooperation's can enforce an EULA,  within the said product update,without providing full disclosure to the effects that service/features/bug fixes entail?

 

What grants Sony the right to make dynamic changes to said product (PS3) via a service that necessitate bug fixes (3.01 aimed at fixing 3.0 oversight) yet envelope servitude as part of the agreement?

 

If I may point to a specific statement: 

 

Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you are online..

 

I would like to see a change list of what is occurring that manifested this change in the EULA. Because that statement is specifically about having internet correctly connected and enable, and not about logging into the PSN.

 

Thank you once again.

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Tl:dr.
I just signed it and started gaming.
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"The ships hung in the air in much the same way that bricks don't" - Douglas Adams
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woobieizer wrote:

Pza266 wrote:

I definitely got an email from Sony stating they were changing the EULA. I read it and signed it and tbh with you don't really care about any of it.

 

Why do you think Sony are wrong over this? If you don't agree with it don't use PSN.


But what if you did not like the direction Sony was heading? Do you think allowing my purchased game collection going to waste is a alternative? 

 

Why must it be our only choice?  Why would Britain have BBC/Watchdog gunning the cooperation's and defending consumer rights?

 

What entity is there to disagree with, when you look, digest, and understand what privacy you are forfeiting on not willing to forfeit?

 

One payed for the system, game, and now must agree to with a inantimate agreement, binding you to forfeit your rights and privacy. 


What personal privacy are you referring to exactly, what personal privacy will be so defiled while your playing your PS3 online or watching a movie or listening to music, that you will feel compelled to contact the Xfiles and get mulder and Sculley on the case......

 

Take the tin foil hat off and start living.

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Firefox2000 wrote:

woobieizer wrote:

Pza266 wrote:

I definitely got an email from Sony stating they were changing the EULA. I read it and signed it and tbh with you don't really care about any of it.

 

Why do you think Sony are wrong over this? If you don't agree with it don't use PSN.


But what if you did not like the direction Sony was heading? Do you think allowing my purchased game collection going to waste is a alternative? 

 

Why must it be our only choice?  Why would Britain have BBC/Watchdog gunning the cooperation's and defending consumer rights?

 

What entity is there to disagree with, when you look, digest, and understand what privacy you are forfeiting on not willing to forfeit?

 

One payed for the system, game, and now must agree to with a inantimate agreement, binding you to forfeit your rights and privacy. 


What personal privacy are you referring to exactly, what personal privacy will be so defiled while your playing your PS3 online or watching a movie or listening to music, that you will feel compelled to contact the Xfiles and get mulder and Sculley on the case......

 

Take the tin foil hat off and start living.


Please refer:

 

4. COLLECTION OF INFORMATION/ AUTHENTICATION

 

1.3

SCE may retrieve information about your hardware and software for authentication, copy protection, account blocking, system monitoring/diagnostics, rules enforcement, game management, marketing purposes, tracking user behavior and other purposes. The information collected is not your personally identifying information.

 

1.2

SCE may retrieve information about your hardware and software for authentication, copy protection, account blocking, system monitoring/diagnostics, rules enforcement, game management and other purposes. The information collected is not your personally identifying information and there is no way to identify you from this information.

 


The part that included blue in 1.3/ and the part that excluded blue in 1.2.

 

Legalese, that was considered important enough to warrant the change, and make my tin foil helmet attenuate.

 

I hope that helps your understanding.

 

 

 

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woobieizer wrote:

Firefox2000 wrote:

woobieizer wrote:

Pza266 wrote:

I definitely got an email from Sony stating they were changing the EULA. I read it and signed it and tbh with you don't really care about any of it.

 

Why do you think Sony are wrong over this? If you don't agree with it don't use PSN.


But what if you did not like the direction Sony was heading? Do you think allowing my purchased game collection going to waste is a alternative? 

 

Why must it be our only choice?  Why would Britain have BBC/Watchdog gunning the cooperation's and defending consumer rights?

 

What entity is there to disagree with, when you look, digest, and understand what privacy you are forfeiting on not willing to forfeit?

 

One payed for the system, game, and now must agree to with a inantimate agreement, binding you to forfeit your rights and privacy. 


What personal privacy are you referring to exactly, what personal privacy will be so defiled while your playing your PS3 online or watching a movie or listening to music, that you will feel compelled to contact the Xfiles and get mulder and Sculley on the case......

 

Take the tin foil hat off and start living.


Please refer:

 

4. COLLECTION OF INFORMATION/ AUTHENTICATION

 

1.3

SCE may retrieve information about your hardware and software for authentication, copy protection, account blocking, system monitoring/diagnostics, rules enforcement, game management, marketing purposes, tracking user behavior and other purposes. The information collected is not your personally identifying information.

 

1.2

SCE may retrieve information about your hardware and software for authentication, copy protection, account blocking, system monitoring/diagnostics, rules enforcement, game management and other purposes. The information collected is not your personally identifying information and there is no way to identify you from this information.

 


The part that included blue in 1.3/ and the part that excluded blue in 1.2.

 

Legalese, that was considered important enough to warrant the change, and make my tin foil helmet attenuate.

 

I hope that helps your understanding.

 

 

 


And explain the impact this will have on your personally and on your day to day life in this world?

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Firefox2000 wrote:
SNIP

And explain the impact this will have on your personally and on your day to day life in this world?


I'm afraid that is personal information. That is why Sony should not be allowed to garner it and use it.

 

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woobieizer wrote:

Firefox2000 wrote:
SNIP

And explain the impact this will have on your personally and on your day to day life in this world?


I'm afraid that is personal information. That is why Sony should not be allowed to garner it and use it.

 


What personaly information could you possibly be giving over the PSN that would have you listeining for clicks on the other end of your phone call and checking your letter for unknown finger prints.........As i said before you need to remove your tin foil hat and move on to more important things becuse on a scale of unimportant things in my life that wont ever effect me this is right behind "I have to remove that tac from the wall in the cupboard".

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I AGREE WI THOM YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT PLAY IT.

ITS NOT LIKE YOU GOING TO LOSE EVERYTHING YOU EVER WORKED TOWARDS I BEEN ON LINE SINCE I BOUGHT PS3 AND NEVER HAD PROBS

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Pugz-CBK-2008 wrote:

I AGREE WI THOM YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT PLAY IT.

ITS NOT LIKE YOU GOING TO LOSE EVERYTHING YOU EVER WORKED TOWARDS I BEEN ON LINE SINCE I BOUGHT PS3 AND NEVER HAD PROBS


It's not just playing a game, it now boils down to your MAC address, and connectivity.  That is why one should be alert to EULA changes.

 

3. SERVICES AND UPDATES

1.3

Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you are online, and others may be available to you through SCE's online network or authorized channels.

 

 

1.2

Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you sign onto SCE's online network, and others may be available to you through SCE's website or authorized channels. 

 


 

4. COLLECTION OF INFORMATION/ AUTHENTICATION

 

1.3

SCE may retrieve information about your hardware and software for authentication, copy protection, account blocking, system monitoring/diagnostics, rules enforcement, game management, marketing purposes, tracking user behavior and other purposes. The information collected is not your personally identifying information.

 

1.2

SCE may retrieve information about your hardware and software for authentication, copy protection, account blocking, system monitoring/diagnostics, rules enforcement, game management and other purposes. The information collected is not your personally identifying information and there is no way to identify you from this information.

 


 

Message Edited by woobieizer on 15-09-2009 07:09 AM
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When it comes to EULA's in general, I would refer the OP to the following

 

 

 

 

From XKCD: http://xkcd.com/501/ 

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SPLITTERS!!
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Pretty sure I signed up to Version 1 or whatever was around at the UK Launch.

Either way, these EULA agreements are a rolling beast. They change and if you want to continue to use the service, you agree.
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Look, PSN isn't a democracy and the EULA isn't something you can argue about. If you accept the EULA, you use the service, if you don't, you stop using the service.

 

It's really just that simple. 

 

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PirateThom wrote:

Look, PSN isn't a democracy and the EULA isn't something you can argue about. If you accept the EULA, you use the service, if you don't, you stop using the service.

 

It's really just that simple. 

 


Thom I will disagree gracefully with your comment.  EULA's are subject to crique, otherwise, laywers wouldn't be needed to write them.  

Thanks you for the honest comment, but I think we can just agree to disagree on that point.

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