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10 Apr 2013
By mh637099

mh637099

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Will PS4 feature Other OS?

24 Replies 6,467 Views Created 10-04-2013
Will it feature Other OS and can install Linux or something? Do you want it back on the PS4?

Post here if you want other OS on PS4.
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IrishViper1

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No it will not.

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Nope. Last time out it proved to be a really bad back door to exploiting the PS3 ecosystem. I know its removal annoyed many, but it wasn't a huge system seller and the downsides it brought to the party should never... from a commercial perspective... be repeated again.

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Tell me he didnt just open that old can of worms again?

No i dont want other OS on ps4 I want a fast intuitive stable reliable PS4 OS for running PS4 games PSN etc and Blu rays nothing else thank you.

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IrishViper1

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@flowrider So your saying what ?
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If Sony get the ps3 os right there will be no need to install linux on there.  you will have everything you need on the ps4 os then.  I want a decent browser and media streaming, then i will be happy :)

Re: Will PS4 feature Other OS?

Ps3: 260gb with Fifa 09, 08, little big planet, Burnout Paradise, Buzz Quiz Tv, Dark Kingdom, Beijing 2008, Mirrors Edge, Assassins Credd, GTA 4, MGS 4, Lego Star wars, indy and batman ! - i think thats all
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x-SourApple-x

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We don't need it, just buy a PC.

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THE_FORCE

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mh637099 wrote:
Will it feature Other OS and can install Linux or something?

 

I thought Linux was a character from Schulz's 'Peanuts'..... :/

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nope!....
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08
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Hmmm, how about installing WINDOWS on it? :D
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I heard the PS4 runs windows 7 os if not what os does it run?

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WARRIC wrote:

I heard the PS4 runs windows 7


 

No!

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With a PC type architecture, it would be a trivial thing to do, however as mentioned before it would just be another thing that could potentially be exploited - unless they were to include access only to an OS via the ARM chip, which would operate similar to a Raspberry Pi - that could be potentially a good safe ground and keep the majority of people happy.

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PatchedUp wrote:

With a PC type architecture, it would be a trivial thing to do,


 

Oh dear god no, please tell me I didn't just read that!  For the gazzilionth time the PS4 is not base on PC architecture!  It merely uses some components that PC's also make use of - namely the x86-64 instruction set and core GPU design.

 

Getting Windows to run on PS4, while possible, IS NOT TRIVIAL!!!

 

The problems...

 

1) lack of BIOS or UEFI firmware - I doubt (though can't be sure unless Sony announce anything) that it uses an off the shelf Windows usable part.  My best guess would be a very highly cusomised UEFI chip (similar to Apple iMacs - but more so).

 

2) The unified RAM.  Windows would't have the first clue how to manage this resource! (at the moment, AMD have announce they will be releasing similar APU's with drivers for unified RAM for Windows)

 

3) Drivers.  Again the motherboard, the APU and GPU are not standard PC parts, they are based on PC parts but highly cusomised for PS4.  I doubt there would be any off the shelf drivers that would work once you've over came the first two problems.

 

 

That said, some very talented hackers will no doubt release a custom firmware and suitable driver set at some point in the PS4's life cycle.  But it will come after a lot of hard work by the hackers and at price with PS4 compatibility...

Re: Will PS4 feature Other OS?

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tmcd35 wrote:

PatchedUp wrote:

With a PC type architecture, it would be a trivial thing to do,


 

Oh dear god no, please tell me I didn't just read that!  For the gazzilionth time the PS4 is not base on PC architecture!  It merely uses some components that PC's also make use of - namely the x86-64 instruction set and core GPU design.

 

Getting Windows to run on PS4, while possible, IS NOT TRIVIAL!!!

 

The problems...

 

1) lack of BIOS or UEFI firmware - I doubt (though can't be sure unless Sony announce anything) that it uses an off the shelf Windows usable part.  My best guess would be a very highly cusomised UEFI chip (similar to Apple iMacs - but more so).

 

2) The unified RAM.  Windows would't have the first clue how to manage this resource! (at the moment, AMD have announce they will be releasing similar APU's with drivers for unified RAM for Windows)

 

3) Drivers.  Again the motherboard, the APU and GPU are not standard PC parts, they are based on PC parts but highly cusomised for PS4.  I doubt there would be any off the shelf drivers that would work once you've over came the first two problems.

 

 

That said, some very talented hackers will no doubt release a custom firmware and suitable driver set at some point in the PS4's life cycle.  But it will come after a lot of hard work by the hackers and at price with PS4 compatibility...


I was really just referring to the being able to get another OS onboard, I wasn't meaning Windows, which would obviously not be supported, and would be far from trivial.

In terms of the PC type architecture, I was using wording that people like Mark Cerny have used, and you are correct, it isn't a PC, but does use the x86-64 instruction set as you mentioned, which is the main thing that makes it more 'PC-like' compared to PowerPC architecture used in the 360 and PS3 et al. gving it a wider base of OS' to choose from.

 

I'm still sticking by the ARM statement, if they do include another OS which I don't think they will, it will be RISC-based rather than x86-64.

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PatchedUp wrote:

I was really just referring to the being able to get another OS onboard, I wasn't meaning Windows, which would obviously not be supported, and would be far from trivial.


 

My apologies, you post came at the end of a disgussion about Win 7 Pro being the base OS - eeek,

 


PatchedUp wrote:

In terms of the PC type architecture, I was using wording that people like Mark Cerny have used,



And a phrase that's caused them trouble because everyone has leapt on it and the first thing the press as done is compare the PS4 unfavourably to off the shelve PC's. 

 

Any way back to the original topic - the other os feature...

 

There's really no reason this time out.  In this case it is close enough to PC architecture to be pointless.  Most people will already own a PC and can stick as meny OS's as they like on that.  What's to be gained by installing one on the PS4?

 

The reason they tried it with the PS3, until hackers changed their minds, was about giving access to the Cell processor.  Remember the Cell was sold as Super Computer technology in a games console.  It was about giving programmers access to all that PS3 Super Computer power.

 

It might have even been a back door attempt to muscle in on the desktop PC market.  Trying to get Linux based Cell computers in homes to repleace Windows x86 machines.  But then few really used so that didn't work.  That and the desktop PC market has been in decline for years so touting the PS4 as a desktop PC replacement won't get them very far either.

 

Long post short - no Cell processor, no point in Other OS feature.

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No, if they do include other OS it absolutely *will not* be either ARM or RISC based. Why? Simple: the PS4's processor is not an ARM processor nor a RISC processor. It is not a PowerPC processor nor an Alpha. It is an AMD Jaguar x86/64 CPU. If it gets support for an OS, it'll be either Linux or Windows.

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JasonGW wrote:

No, if they do include other OS it absolutely *will not* be either ARM or RISC based. Why? Simple: the PS4's processor is not an ARM processor nor a RISC processor. It is not a PowerPC processor nor an Alpha. It is an AMD Jaguar x86/64 CPU. If it gets support for an OS, it'll be either Linux or Windows.


 

I wish it had an i7 9 core :P

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Unsure weather im allowed to post this but heres the last part of a fellow developers post.

http://sonyps4.com/os-support-featur...d-and-the-ps4/

Quote:
Insiders from Sony say they have introduced a customized kernel version rather than using the basic kernel to support this feature. This customized kernel may support specific versions of Linux only as a part of beta testing. Subsequently Sony will enable all version support after successful completion of beta testing.

But this time Sony is confident that they won’t block this feature, and that they have an alternative to block the security threats. 

An inside source also says Sony’s firmware upgrade during the release of PlayStation 4 will re-enable the other OS support in PlayStation 3 as well. So it’s good news for PlayStation 3 owners too after suffering for couple of years. Moreover it’s believed to be a gamble to boost PlayStation 4 sales.

The first part, providing Linux support as Other OS in the PS4 makes sense as it did with the PS3, an effort to expose heterogeneous computing and Cell and with the PS4, to expose AMD's Open Source HSA and OpenCL to as many programmers as possible. 

The second part, enabling other OS support for the PS3 would be a marketing (sales) effort or perhaps support for Linux. 

Intel is behind Wayland/Westin 1.0 composition layer (using Cairo) instead of Xwindows due in a few months then GTK rewrites to optionally eliminate Xwindows GDK calls. Latest Linux kernel has now absorbed the Google Android Linux kernel changes that didn't use Xwindows (Tim Bird of Sony) and optimized to support embedded lower resource platforms. Latest Linux kernel is now smaller and faster. Rewrite for Glib to use Android D-Buss routines and more to make it faster and smaller. Combine them all and you have a smaller eLinux platform like Tizen or a optimized Gnome Mobile that can also be used for desktop. 

In AMD presentations there are references to DRM (Blu-ray) and built-in control points. A special "simpler" Linux kernel could limit features. I don't know how this will play out.

 

 

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I actually can't believe YOU wrote what you did. PS4 is *absolutely* based on PC architecture. An AMD Jaguar x86/x64 CPU is a PC processor. The Radeon GPU--PC architecture. The GDDR5 RAM? Yeah--PC. The PCI Express 256 bit system bus? You guessed it--PC. The SATA (probably 3, maybe 2) hard drive? Yeah--PC.

 

PS4, like Xbox One, is certainly modified and optimized for speed and maximum throughput, but make no mistake--they are BOTH build on PC architecture.

 

As to what kind of firmware interface they'll have, you can safely bet they'll use a secure UEFI firmware. 

 

As for accessing unified RAM, you're kidding, right? Every low end PC on the market uses unified RAM--the CPU and the GPU share a pool of RAM, which is allocated either in firmware or by Windows. There are certainly no "off the shelf" drivers that would let Windows 8 work on PS4, but let's be clear: it'd absolutely be within Sony's capability to deliver such drivers. Given that they've got their fingers deep in the design pie, they could certainly develop working, stable, well-made drivers. All the system would need special to really fly is an SSD rather than a hard drive for the OS to run on.

 

That said, while I'd LOVE if Sony did this, I really doubt they will. It'd be seven kinds of awesome if they did though.

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JasonGW wrote:

I actually can't believe YOU wrote what you did. PS4 is *absolutely* based on PC architecture. An AMD Jaguar x86/x64 CPU is a PC processor. The Radeon GPU--PC architecture. The GDDR5 RAM? Yeah--PC. The PCI Express 256 bit system bus? You guessed it--PC. The SATA (probably 3, maybe 2) hard drive? Yeah--PC.

 

PS4, like Xbox One, is certainly modified and optimized for speed and maximum throughput, but make no mistake--they are BOTH build on PC architecture.

 


 

Mmmm, I think you completely misunderstood what I wrote.  Yes both console uses the some of the same components as modern PC's, but that really only makes them close cousins.   Until we see the full final design we can only speculate how close the relationship.  There is huge difference between using the same CPU instruction set and being archtectually identical (which they are not!).

 

Let's look at history for some examples; Commodore Amiga and Atari ST both used the MC68000 processor - but that doesn't meant they where based on the same architecture (yes I know there are more simularities between PS4 and PC but the example serves a purpose).

 

Architecturaly identical would mean I can take random  AMD components from eBuyer and slap on the PS4 OS without any significant changes and it'll just work.  It won't.  Mac's and PC's are based on the same architecture.  XBox One appears to be a closer relative to PC with it's NT Kernal and Direct-X API. PS4 is a distant cousin.

 

On the subject of Firmware, can we really be so sure Sony will use a secure UEFI?  I'm not.  It's the safe, cheap choice. But there is absolutely nothing stopping them from writing their own.  Hell even if they use UEFI they can rewrite it in such away that essential functions calls for Windows are renamed or just plan not there.

 

Finally, there is a huge difference between Unified RAM and Shared RAM.  One is Windowsc ompatible, the other will need a major memory management and graphics driver rewrite!   I suppose you could use a BIOS hack to make the unified RAM appear as Shared RAM to get Windows running...

 

Sure there are close enough simularities and AMD appear to be wanting to bring this tech to the PC world.  I've no doubt that the console hacking community will find away to make it happen, especially if the BIOS is UEFI based, quiet early in the consoles life.

 

But no, there is no good reason for Sony including the Other OS feature this time out.  Installing a competitors OS and running cheaper PC versions of games that Sony take a cut on the sale of?  Not going to offically happen!

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