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18 May 2011
By Gawge

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Criticism of Ken Clarke's comments on rape

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13436429

 

I was listening to Ken Clarke on 5 Live this morning, and I largely agreed with him. I'm surprised at the storm which has been whipped up regarding his comments.

 

I thought that we could perhaps finally have a sensible conversation about prison sentences and all that surrounds it. However, perhaps that is wishful thinking, as when mentioning rape, unless you pretty much talk about torturing the culprit, you will be savagely attacked by the media. 

 

I'd like to know what Ed Miliband disagrees with, as it seems to me like bandwagon jumping, which unfortunately will probably work. What Ken Clarke put forward are sensible recommendations which will actually improve the country, rather than satisfying the tabloids and revenge-driven public.

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Sorry Gawge but no way mate. A guilty plea should have zero bearing on a case anyway. Regardless of how they plead to any crime if they are found guilty then there should be a standard sentence duration, and for rape.... 15 years is appropriate. The law is way too leniant in this country.

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ProjectVRD wrote:

A guilty plea should have zero bearing on a case anyway. Regardless of how they plead to any crime if they are found guilty then there should be a standard sentence duration, and for rape.... 15 years is appropriate. The law is way too leniant in this country.


 

There needs to be an incentive for a guilty plea, for the amount of money it saves, for the amount of grief it saves the victim and their family and for the potential psychological benefit that it gives culprit, perhaps a step towards rehabilitation. 

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Halfing their sentence is just way too much though imo.
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Diddymow wrote:
Halfing their sentence is just way too much though imo.

I agree with you.  The thing is no matter how someone is raped a rape victims life is destroyed forever

 

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I think hes right but it should be the womans choice, if she wants to accept the plea and avoid court which i assume a lot do, they just want to see justice done then they can do it.

 

If a woman wants to see it through in court and wants a bigger sentence she should be allowed.

 

I also agree with him that certain rapes are fundamentally different.

 

At the end of the day it should be the victims choice.

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fenian wrote:

I think hes right but it should be the womans choice, if she wants to accept the plea and avoid court which i assume a lot do, they just want to see justice done then they can do it.

 

If a woman wants to see it through in court and wants a bigger sentence she should be allowed.

 

I also agree with him that certain rapes are fundamentally different.

 

At the end of the day it should be the victims choice.


 

or the mans (Men get raped)

 

 

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Gawge wrote:

 


ProjectVRD wrote:

A guilty plea should have zero bearing on a case anyway. Regardless of how they plead to any crime if they are found guilty then there should be a standard sentence duration, and for rape.... 15 years is appropriate. The law is way too leniant in this country.


 

There needs to be an incentive for a guilty plea, for the amount of money it saves, for the amount of grief it saves the victim and their family and for the potential psychological benefit that it gives culprit, perhaps a step towards rehabilitation. 


Or perhaps a deterrent for pleading not guilty if you are in fact guilty? Such as an extra 10 years if the sentence is infact 15 years normally?

 

 

25 years behind bars is a big deterrent for criminals to plead not guilty. If the person is geniunely not guilty he/she will have nothing to worry about 99.9999999% of the time.

 

Also on the subject of a 17 year old being classed as a rapist for having sex with consenting 15 year old, I don't consider that rape. It might be hard to consider that guy or girl who was 17 of being a pedo as well, that sort of scenario is a bit of minefield for people on both sides of the fence as far as opinions are concerned. But the law does need urgent amending so that scenario is not classed as rape.

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Well whether we consider it rape or not, people get sent to jail for it all the time project, and it drags the stats down a lot.

 

When she quoted average rape sentence it was taking into account all these kinds of cases, which generally get very very small sentence, but are under law classed as rape cases and add to rape statistics.

 

I think thats what threw him off so much, he was thinking there was no way someone who comits what we all consider a brutal violent rape would get such a light sentance.

 

Something that we do in Ireland is, we have taken away a persons right to remain silent. We took it away to deal with drug gangs who would just sit there saying nothing. Now if police question you in releation to a crime you have to answer them.. Where you were, who you were with, what you were doing, you cant stay silent.

 

An innocent person has nothing to really hide and they can infer guilt if you remain silent.

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fenian wrote:

Well whether we consider it rape or not, people get sent to jail for it all the time project, and it drags the stats down a lot.

 

When she quoted average rape sentence it was taking into account all these kinds of cases, which generally get very very small sentence, but are under law classed as rape cases and add to rape statistics.

 

I think thats what threw him off so much, he was thinking there was no way someone who comits what we all consider a brutal violent rape would get such a light sentance.

 

Something that we do in Ireland is, we have taken away a persons right to remain silent. We took it away to deal with drug gangs who would just sit there saying nothing. Now if police question you in releation to a crime you have to answer them.. Where you were, who you were with, what you were doing, you cant stay silent.

 

An innocent person has nothing to really hide and they can infer guilt if you remain silent.


Aye I worded it wrong, what I meant was it should not be considered rape by the law because rape was intended to be forcful act of intercourse and this scenario was something bolted on to the rape classification by politcians.

 

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ProjectVRD wrote:

25 years behind bars is a big deterrent for criminals to plead not guilty. If the person is geniunely not guilty he/she will have nothing to worry about 99.9999999% of the time.


 

So you're saying that there's statistically less than one person in the world that's a victim of a miscarriage of justice? It's probably closer to 99% and I would say that even that is over confident.

 

Regardless of whether you call it a deterrant to pleading not guilty or a reward for pleading guilty, it amounts to the same thing. I do think that many sentences are too leniant but that's irrelavent. I think Clarke's suggestions are a good idea.

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The trouble with rape, from a legal point of view, is that it's so hard to prove. Because the rape you are all thinking about happens very rarely.

 

The amount of time a creepy bloke with a dodgy beard in a rain mac snatches a girl in the forest is minimal compared to the amount of times a boy and girl get a little drunk and to save face infront of her parents when she sprouts a bub she screams rape.

 

Plus you have to conisder underage sexual offences.

 

I still think that all sexual offences are horrible, but as with all crimes they have mitigating factors. I would say maybe 25% off for a guilty plea is appropriate.

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WJB1 wrote:

 


ProjectVRD wrote:

25 years behind bars is a big deterrent for criminals to plead not guilty. If the person is geniunely not guilty he/she will have nothing to worry about 99.9999999% of the time.


 

So you're saying that there's statistically less than one person in the world that's a victim of a miscarriage of justice? It's probably closer to 99% and I would say that even that is over confident.

 

Regardless of whether you call it a deterrant to pleading not guilty or a reward for pleading guilty, it amounts to the same thing. I do think that many sentences are too leniant but that's irrelavent. I think Clarke's suggestions are a good idea.


I took into account the persistent offenders around the whole world and our sister planet, Klob.

 

But instead of shortening a sentence for pleading correctly, they should lengthen a sentence for deliverately wasting time and causing undue stress.

 

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One thing I love when reading about discussions of rape is that they only talk about men raping women. Sexist [Bleep]s.
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dannyjt wrote:
One thing I love when reading about discussions of rape is that they only talk about men raping women. Sexist [Bleep]s.

That why I already stated that men get raped too.  People have a tendency to forget because men are less likely to report rape then women because they are embarrassed

 

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stme wrote:

 


dannyjt wrote:
One thing I love when reading about discussions of rape is that they only talk about men raping women. Sexist [Bleep]s.

That why I already stated that men get raped too.  People have a tendency to forget because men are less likely to report rape then women because they are embarrassed

 


 

 

And to be honest, women are too weak to take on us big, strong men

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dannyjt wrote:

 


stme wrote:

 


dannyjt wrote:
One thing I love when reading about discussions of rape is that they only talk about men raping women. Sexist [Bleep]s.

That why I already stated that men get raped too.  People have a tendency to forget because men are less likely to report rape then women because they are embarrassed

 


 

 

And to be honest, women are too weak to take on us big, strong men


everyone is vulnerable when they are asleep

 

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You sly dog Chuk.

I'm sleeping with my bottom against the wall tonight.
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Chuk_Chuk wrote:

 


dannyjt wrote:

 


stme wrote:

 


dannyjt wrote:
One thing I love when reading about discussions of rape is that they only talk about men raping women. Sexist [Bleep]s.

That why I already stated that men get raped too.  People have a tendency to forget because men are less likely to report rape then women because they are embarrassed

 


 

 

And to be honest, women are too weak to take on us big, strong men


everyone is vulnerable when they are asleep

 


 

Peep Show taught us this lesson.

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stme wrote:

 


dannyjt wrote:
One thing I love when reading about discussions of rape is that they only talk about men raping women. Sexist [Bleep]s.

That why I already stated that men get raped too.  People have a tendency to forget because men are less likely to report rape then women because they are embarrassed

 


Or we just tell the lads down the pub how we got laid the night before :D

 

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dannyjt wrote:
One thing I love when reading about discussions of rape is that they only talk about men raping women. Sexist [Bleep]s.

 

I wouldn't say it's sexist. The incident rate of men being raped must be much lower.

 

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