Reply
Want to join in?

Sign in to continue

I have a PSN account

Welcome back!

I'm new!

it only takes a minute or two

  • 23

    New messages in the last hour

  • Get a response within minutes

  • 92%

    92% percent of messages responded to

29 Apr 2012
By fenian

fenian

  • Offline
95%
06 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post

Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

43 Replies 365 Views Created 29-04-2012

In a shift of thinking, now a majority of doctors believe the NHS shouldnt waste rare resources on people who wont make an effort. So smokers, obese people, and drinkers for liver damage.

 

Do you think people who are getting treatment on the taxpayers dime should be forced to live a more healthy life?

 

If they cant live a more healthy life, refused treatment and forced to find some other way to get better rather than be a constant burdern on taxes?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/apr/28/doctors-treatment-denial-smokers-obese

Reply
0 Kudos
LABELS:

View our house rules for posts
Post Reply Update Reply Cancel
06
/16

xElfenLied_US

  • Offline
85%
06 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
xElfenLied_US
Accepted Solution
They should give them therapy treatment, along side physical, to treat their addictions and their problems.

It IS a waste of money if you just go and give some 30st person a gastric band, to lose all the weight, and still have this emotional addiction to binge eating, it's just a ridiculous waste of money because they'd end up going and doing the same again.

If they refuse to get the right help for their addictions though, then yeah, don't waste money on them.
Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

Не верь, не бойся, не проси


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
07
/16

Furys-embrace

  • Offline
94%
07 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
Furys-embrace
Accepted Solution

Makes you wonder where that 4 quid in tax you pay on a pack of 20 ciggies goes if its not being spent on oxygen tents for people with lung cancer. Oh yeah thats right, its used to pay for more GATSO speed cameras on roads that dont need them.  

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

[ Edited ]
02
/16

beepze

  • Offline
84%
02 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
beepze
Accepted Solution
I am a fat smoker and can't wait to use the tax payers money. Better than some gov buying a second home and xmas pres for their kids or even a holiday all paid for by u tax payers. wake up?
Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

07
/16

Furys-embrace

  • Offline
94%
07 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
Furys-embrace
Accepted Solution

beepze wrote:
I am a fat smoker and can't wait to use the tax payers money. Better than some gov buying a second home and xmas pres for their kids or even a holiday all paid for by u tax payers. wake up?


Thats the spirit fatty! I remember when embassy cigs used to put 'focus points' in packs which you could save up and redeem for things, I was saving up for an iron lung with mine, then the government put a stop to it so I had to cash in my points early. I ended up with some infra red Technics headphones which were'nt very good :(

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

02
/16

TrueDevil0666

  • Offline
92%
02 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
TrueDevil0666
Accepted Solution

beepze wrote:
I am a fat smoker and can't wait to use the tax payers money. Better than some gov buying a second home and xmas pres for their kids or even a holiday all paid for by u tax payers. wake up?

 

and isnt that like saying,

EG: Im an MP and can't wait to use the tax payers money. Better then an Obese Drinker/Smoker or just a Smoker/Drinker self inflicting only to recieve the same treatment over and over wasting money which genuinely sick people need for reasons that are not their fault or self inflicted?

 

Neither Gov or Obese/Smoker/Drinker are any better then the other...

 

Seems like a vicious circle to me... Noone will win...

 

Shame really as the money could be used for a genuine Hereditory disease that noone has a choice in the matter and need the treatment... or suffer great consequences...

 

Cystic Fibrosis (which I suffer and am currently undergoing a 2year treatment for a bug called Absesses (not spelt correctly) that might not go as the drugs only have a 30% chance of removing the bug, if it doesnt clear however I wont be able to recieve a lung transplant, BUT if it does clear after 1 year of absence then I get to have a lung transplant if i need one unless i get that bug again...

ill be in hospital for 3-6 weeks starting tomorrow for the treatment and dreading it, got another 1year and 9months of treatment to go...)

 

So (no offense to anyone) im in favour to those who self-inflict to not recieve any treatment untill they help themselfs, or is that too selfish to ask?

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

[ Edited ]
- Signature -

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution." - Albert Einstein
07
/16

Furys-embrace

  • Offline
94%
07 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
Furys-embrace
Accepted Solution

good luck with the treatment. I was in high school with a girl who had CF and the effects are horrible. Conditions like that which are genetic/hereditary have my upmost sympathy but when the NHS start prioritising treatment thats a slippery slope. 'Oh we wont be treating 73 yr old bill for lung cancer and that heart attack because he smoked for 40 years and had a full english breakfast before going to work, and had a few pints down his local on wednesday night, never mind the 40 years he paid tax, not to mention the duty on his tobacco and alcohol, its all self inflicted so its just tough' When the NHS employs these tactics as a means of cost saving, free health care in the uk is truly dead and we may as well all join bupa.

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

05
/16

bible-man

  • Offline
97%
05 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
bible-man
Accepted Solution
If they made cigarettes illegal then fair enough but lets face it, that is never going to happen. Plenty of people get injured doing things they don't need to or shouldn't do and they get treatment for free why should smokers or fat people be discriminated against. It's not like they are breaking the law
Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

Beta Tester
10
/16

InfiniteStates

  • Beta Tester
  • Offline
94%
10 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
InfiniteStates
Accepted Solution

bible-man wrote:
If they made cigarettes illegal then fair enough but lets face it, that is never going to happen. Plenty of people get injured doing things they don't need to or shouldn't do and they get treatment for free why should smokers or fat people be discriminated against. It's not like they are breaking the law


Good point... Maybe the NHS should also refuse treatment for people with inappropriate body parts stuck in vacuum cleaners, objects stuck in exit only orifices, drunken brawling, car crash victims if it was determined they were drunk and/or speeding, etc...

 

Where do you draw the line?

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

02
/16
68%
02 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
BettySwollocks92
Accepted Solution

I think all doctors who drink and smoke should be struck off.

 

see how they like it :D

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

I'm just a sweet transvestite from Transsexual, Transylvania
06
/16

ProjectVRD

  • Offline
94%
06 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
ProjectVRD
Accepted Solution

TrueDevil0666 wrote:

beepze wrote:
I am a fat smoker and can't wait to use the tax payers money. Better than some gov buying a second home and xmas pres for their kids or even a holiday all paid for by u tax payers. wake up?

 

and isnt that like saying,

EG: Im an MP and can't wait to use the tax payers money. Better then an Obese Drinker/Smoker or just a Smoker/Drinker self inflicting only to recieve the same treatment over and over wasting money which genuinely sick people need for reasons that are not their fault or self inflicted?

 

Neither Gov or Obese/Smoker/Drinker are any better then the other...

 

Seems like a vicious circle to me... Noone will win...

 

Shame really as the money could be used for a genuine Hereditory disease that noone has a choice in the matter and need the treatment... or suffer great consequences...

 

Cystic Fibrosis (which I suffer and am currently undergoing a 2year treatment for a bug called Absesses (not spelt correctly) that might not go as the drugs only have a 30% chance of removing the bug, if it doesnt clear however I wont be able to recieve a lung transplant, BUT if it does clear after 1 year of absence then I get to have a lung transplant if i need one unless i get that bug again...

ill be in hospital for 3-6 weeks starting tomorrow for the treatment and dreading it, got another 1year and 9months of treatment to go...)

 

So (no offense to anyone) im in favour to those who self-inflict to not recieve any treatment untill they help themselfs, or is that too selfish to ask?


 

If every smoker stopped smoking then you too will not get free treatment. So do you believe that smokers deserve no treatment but they should still pay for yours?

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?


 


I am going to be rude and ask you follow me 


@TweetScientific


 


If I had my own way then you wouldn't have a choice


But you will find out about some ridiculously awesome stuff,


Like QUANTUM TELEVISIONS!!!!


06
/16

fenian

  • Offline
95%
06 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
fenian
Accepted Solution

Furys-embrace wrote:

Makes you wonder where that 4 quid in tax you pay on a pack of 20 ciggies goes if its not being spent on oxygen tents for people with lung cancer. Oh yeah thats right, its used to pay for more GATSO speed cameras on roads that dont need them.  


 

As far as I know tax on cigarettes does not cover the cost of covering the health risks that come with smoking, and they basically make no money out of them.

 

There is lung cancer sure, but there is also throat, mouth etc.

 

But there is also COPD, which is when your lungs become permanently damaged from smoke, Once you get COPD you have to quit work, sit around doing nothing, you get put on a big list of medication and if you keep smoking will eventually end up on oxygen and die.

 

Not every smoker will get lung cancer, but as of 2012 most smokers will get COPD and end up on disability. Its the 2nd biggest illness in the world.

 

People with COPD are often overweight, and often need joint replacements, they might get bad bones, etc etc..

 

3.5 million people in the UK have it and are given ongoing treatement as they continue to smoke and get wores and miss more days of work etc etc. 

 

The doctors are not saying everyone should live a life free of indulgence, they are saying if your lifestyle has put you in a postion of bad health, then to fix those bad health problems you should be expected to change your lifestyle.

 

I think they have a point, if you have copd/lung cancer you should stop smoking.

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

02
/16
68%
02 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
BettySwollocks92
Accepted Solution

fenian wrote:

Furys-embrace wrote:

Makes you wonder where that 4 quid in tax you pay on a pack of 20 ciggies goes if its not being spent on oxygen tents for people with lung cancer. Oh yeah thats right, its used to pay for more GATSO speed cameras on roads that dont need them.  


 

As far as I know tax on cigarettes does not cover the cost of covering the health risks that come with smoking, and they basically make no money out of them.

 

There is lung cancer sure, but there is also throat, mouth etc.

 

But there is also COPD, which is when your lungs become permanently damaged from smoke, Once you get COPD you have to quit work, sit around doing nothing, you get put on a big list of medication and if you keep smoking will eventually end up on oxygen and die.

 

Not every smoker will get lung cancer, but as of 2012 most smokers will get COPD and end up on disability. Its the 2nd biggest illness in the world.

 

People with COPD are often overweight, and often need joint replacements, they might get bad bones, etc etc..

 

3.5 million people in the UK have it and are given ongoing treatement as they continue to smoke and get wores and miss more days of work etc etc. 

 

The doctors are not saying everyone should live a life free of indulgence, they are saying if your lifestyle has put you in a postion of bad health, then to fix those bad health problems you should be expected to change your lifestyle.

 

I think they have a point, if you have copd/lung cancer you should stop smoking.



every one's going to be getting psych services then. What about the people whose meds cause them to put weight on? what if they smoke a little each day too? or people with metal health problems which cause certain behaviours?

 

they'll be using this excuse to refuse treatments left right and centre and medical treatment should not be a privilidge of the rich who can afford to go private

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

I'm just a sweet transvestite from Transsexual, Transylvania
06
/16

fenian

  • Offline
95%
06 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
fenian
Accepted Solution

BettySwollocks92 wrote:

every one's going to be getting psych services then. What about the people whose meds cause them to put weight on? what if they smoke a little each day too? or people with metal health problems which cause certain behaviours?

 

they'll be using this excuse to refuse treatments left right and centre and medical treatment should not be a privilidge of the rich who can afford to go private


 

I only mentioned one or two illnesses caused by smoking and overweight, I could list pages, the 2nd and 3rd biggest killers in the UK among men and women is stroke, caused by smoking and being overweight. COPD has 3.5million.

 

If you put on weight due to medication then thats not really a lifestyle problem so they wouldnt expect you to lose the weight, they should expect you to still try be healthy.

 

If someone has some mental health problem that causes them to over eat or smoke then they should be treated for that.

 

The problem isnt the odd person here and there, its the millions of people who are smoking, overweight heavy drinkers. Who visit the hospitals over and over and over and over until they die, missing work all the time.

 

Accidents happen us all, rarely, they dont cause people to miss much work, they can usually be patched up quickly, and a person can be sent on their way without ever returning to the hospital for the most part.

 

But with smokers/overweight/heavy drinkers, its never just one visit is it? after their first they usually spend the rest of their lives visiting hopsitals and missing work.

 

I know someone who has diagnosed mental health problems, and every doctor she meets takes that as an underlying medical condition and the same will continue to happen into the future, 

 

But I also think if youre an alcoholic you shouldnt get a liver transplant before someone else.

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

10
/16

CrustyJockStrap

  • Offline
91%
10 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
CrustyJockStrap
Accepted Solution

The NHS is supose to be for everyone

 

Yes cost's are spiraling in the NHS so now it is time for preventive action.

 

They do it to a little extent but not enough to take away NHS help for these people.

 

People that are effected by smoking and being obese need to tour schools and get across the message of the type of life they are living.

 

It may take a generation for it to work but it is a start.

 

You can't just deny a whole bunch of people treatment with out propper education about it and many of these people never had it and the od TV add is not enought.

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

Below is a Signature



Sony are stabbing their loyal family customers in the back - We have 3 PS3s and 3 PSPs all on the same IP address and all registered with Sony. Why can't we use them at the same time anymore?
06
/16

fenian

  • Offline
95%
06 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
fenian
Accepted Solution

nah its 2012, every sane person knows what COPD/Strokes/Heart disease/Cancer/diabetes are.

 

People who suffer from these things are told to stop smoking, to eat healthy, a month later they are back in hospital the doctor asks have they given up? they say no.

 

They are given medication to help stop smoking, they are given advice, they are given gym memberships and details on healthy food.

 

A month later they are back in hospital, doctor asks did they give up they say no.

 

There comes a time when doctors must say "listen youre a lost cause, youre going to die. either die as cheaply as you can or start helping us help you and you will have the whole nhs at your disposal".

 

Do you people seriously think its ok for someone to smoke themselves into the grave while the tax payer pays hundreds of thousands trying to cure them?

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

12
/16

Gawge

  • Offline
83%
12 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
Gawge
Accepted Solution
I think you need to work at it from the other end. Encouraging healthy living, rather than punishing those who become ill.

It is a difficult issue, since we have an NHS, it is not the most appealing thought to be subsidising other people's poor life choices. However, I imagine it is still cheaper for almost everybody to put in to the NHS, rather than some sort of private system - since we are effectively getting a 60million-strong group discount.

That being said, many taxpayers would be pretty annoyed if they looked at the average City centre on a Friday night. A lot of money being spent on police presence, stomach pumping, cleaning up and seeds being sown for liver disease.
Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

06
/16

fenian

  • Offline
95%
06 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
fenian
Accepted Solution

The vast majority of people who go out on a friday and saturday night in the city dont go on to develop liver disease, dont get in trouble during the night, dont go to hospital.

 

They are a profitable night.

 

The argument isnt about lifestyle, its about once the lifestyle becomes a lost cause should they waste money on the person? even if the person does not want to change their lifestyle despite help?

 

Whats wrong with placing some responsibility on people, drawing a line in the sand, "you can take things this far, any further and you will have to give up that lifestyle alltogether"


Shouldnt overweight people want to lose the weight? shouldnt smokers want to quit? they dont, so they should be forced.

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

10
/16

CrustyJockStrap

  • Offline
91%
10 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
CrustyJockStrap
Accepted Solution

fenian wrote:

The vast majority of people who go out on a friday and saturday night in the city dont go on to develop liver disease, dont get in trouble during the night, dont go to hospital.

 

They are a profitable night.

 

The argument isnt about lifestyle, its about once the lifestyle becomes a lost cause should they waste money on the person? even if the person does not want to change their lifestyle despite help?

 

Whats wrong with placing some responsibility on people, drawing a line in the sand, "you can take things this far, any further and you will have to give up that lifestyle alltogether"


Shouldnt overweight people want to lose the weight? shouldnt smokers want to quit? they dont, so they should be forced.



No they should not be forced.

That would cause more problems than it would solve.

 

The need to be supported and educated all the way.

 



Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

Below is a Signature



Sony are stabbing their loyal family customers in the back - We have 3 PS3s and 3 PSPs all on the same IP address and all registered with Sony. Why can't we use them at the same time anymore?
06
/16

fenian

  • Offline
95%
06 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
fenian
Accepted Solution

CrustyJockStrap wrote:

No they should not be forced.

That would cause more problems than it would solve.

 

The need to be supported and educated all the way.


 

So people should be supported to smoke if they chose to? right up until they are getting oxygen deliveries to their house and on thousands of quid worth of medication?

 

And people should be told what the right thing is, but left to wheeze their way out of life if they want?

 

I think they should just let them die if they aint even gonna try.

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

10
/16

CrustyJockStrap

  • Offline
91%
10 Rank
Progress
Playstation Staff

Problem Solved

View Original Post
CrustyJockStrap
Accepted Solution

fenian wrote:

CrustyJockStrap wrote:

No they should not be forced.

That would cause more problems than it would solve.

 

The need to be supported and educated all the way.


 

So people should be supported to smoke if they chose to? right up until they are getting oxygen deliveries to their house and on thousands of quid worth of medication?

 

And people should be told what the right thing is, but left to wheeze their way out of life if they want?

 

I think they should just let them die if they aint even gonna try.


People need to be convinced and supported into the transition fully.

 

 

Your solution would make 2011 riots look like a childs playground.

 

You can't force this onto people you need to educate them and support them through the transistion.

 

No quick time fix is going to work you need to work at the long term fix

Reply
0 Kudos

Re: Smokers and Obese to be denied treatment?

Below is a Signature



Sony are stabbing their loyal family customers in the back - We have 3 PS3s and 3 PSPs all on the same IP address and all registered with Sony. Why can't we use them at the same time anymore?
Advanced
You must be signed in to add attachments
View our house rules for posts
Post Reply Update Reply Cancel