20-05-2012 01:44 PM - edited 20-05-2012 01:54 PM
Base-ravaging and spawn-comping happen in every game, I agree on that, but there are solutions developers have adopted to limit it over the years.
Where are the limitations in Starhawk, where are they?
Can you spawn wherever you want on the map (Section 8 Prejudice) so that spawn camping is nearly impossible: no.
Do your spawning point changes to an "enemy-free zone" when the enemy is IN your base (Killzone 3): no.
Do you have automatic defenses, like indestructible turrets, to protect you from base-campers: no.
Are there indestructible buildings where you can always take shelter after spawning: no
Can you spawn inside buildings so to be a bit more protected in case of spawn-camping: no, you only spawn in the open.
Can you spawn unnoticed thus having at least a small advantage in case of base-ravaging: no, when you spawn a big marker shows exactly where you are going to be making you an even easier target.
In other games you can drop new spawn points (spawn grenades, spawn beacons, etc...) nearly for free or simply have a skill for that, can you do the same here: no, spawn points are very expensive in Starhawk.
Is B&B limited so that enemy players' cant use it inside your base: no.
on 20-05-2012 01:52 PM
on 20-05-2012 02:10 PM
on 20-05-2012 02:23 PM
That is quite the defeatist attitude to have. I have merely given you the tools (ideas) to help in those situations. How you use those tools and what you build (and battle) is upto you. For a start..... Rift barrels regenerate so you just have to wait. Weapon spawns are displayed on the map so finding them should be too much a problem. As saber said there is an explore function to learn the maps. Squad leader isn't too hard to unlock but it's beyond my and your control if someone decides to spawn on you or not. Lastly you can play ground only games if hawks are annoying you that much. This game has alot of problems at the moment but some are self inflicted by the players themselves and not the design of the game
Just pointing out that those complaining aren't necessarily just standing in the base waiting to be rescued by LBI changing the game. We do try things, and they don't work unless you get very lucky. So the idea that some are presenting that the complainers are just wimps or useless is utterly unfair.
As for learning the maps, any game that requires a few hours boring training before you get to have any fun isn't much of a game. In WH we could play noobs versus noobs and have fun whilst learning the levels (eventually, and hence why isn't this present in the very beginning for SH?).
on 20-05-2012 02:35 PM
The way out of being base raped is just to spawn somewhere & get the hell out of there, go & shoot up some rift barrels and set-up a forward base. People really need to keep an eye out for brief moments forward bases exist in base-raped games and stop just camping in the home base.
Do you really believe people don't try that? It was the same in WH. You could try and run, but some hawk would find and kill you. There's not a great deal of defense for a newly spawned character, especially when the missiles are only available from a destroyed bunker.
Things I've tried when being base-ravaged:
Typically during these events, a good half of the team have quit meaning we're outnumbered 2:1 and outgunned by those with the equipment. Yes, if you keep trying maybe you'll get a lucky break. Maybe your Sidewinder won't be noticed by the Hawks off rearming their clusterbombs and nukes. Maybe the tanks will be too busy killing the base not to notice. But unlike the beta where an outpost could be established and built effectively into a base (which will only get nuked again), the game at the moment means an outpost starts very feeble and is soon destroyed. It's not possible to turn the tide of batlle from losing team to winning by clever play or smart thinking, unless coupled with a massive dose of good-fortune. There are totally overpowered weapons that were never tested in the beta that have borken the game. And us complainers aren't just whinging here - LBI have the stats that prove it and are making the changes!
20-05-2012 02:40 PM - edited 20-05-2012 02:54 PM
Design choices allowed to base-ravage this easily, players' attitude just did the rest.
This doesn't mean that it is not possible to counter base-ravaging with other design choices.
For instance I CAN'T camp in the enemy base in Killzone 3 and not because I don't wan to, but because I get killed by automatic defences: a design choice prevents me from base-camping.
Let me make you another example of how design choices can affect players behaviour and limit misbehaviour.
In Dust 514 CCP designed the spawning system so that that there will be no fixed spawn points.
Players before each battle will decide TOGETHER where to place clone units (spawn point) on the map and so every time spawn points will be in a different place: you won't be able to start a match and immediately know where to camp to easily kill the spawning enemies like in Starhawk.
This will limit spawn camping a lot but it doesn't end here: in Dust 514 you will be able to re-spawn on Dropship, mobile flying vehicles, and so you will be able to spawn out of danger.
Of course Dropship can still be destroyed but also have canons on each side to fire back and can even be equipped with a cloaking system so to fly undetected by normal radars.
Also Dust 514 will have orbital bombardments: camp too long in the same place and you become an easy target.
Design choices will make harder to base-ravage or spawn-camp in Dust 514; players might wan to do that anyway but it won't be easy as in Starhawk.
on 20-05-2012 02:52 PM
, any game that requires a few hours boring training before you get to have any fun isn't much of a game. In WH we could play noobs versus noobs and have fun whilst learning the levels (eventually, and hence why isn't this present in the very beginning for SH?).
It just gives you the option to have a look at the maps....
Nobody says you have to train for a few hrs to learn the maps...
Its just a tool the developers have added so you can possible plan likely attack routes , see the choke points & find the weapons caches in a more relaxed mode rather than being chased by Hawks...
I've found it useful......
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