Solid_Snake12345 wrote:
Commandofin wrote:
People, this game is not WarHawk, it still contains the essence of WarHawk but that does not mean its exactly the same as WarHawk. The game won't be WarHawk 1.5, it is its own game so stop saying that the building thing should be left out or classes (if included) should not be part of the game.
I want gaming to progress, not for it to just take one step forward and stop right there.
Some people complain about the Hawks been vulnerable when changing forms because it takes too much time. Well if the Hawk could change its form in a split of a second infantry wouldn't have any chance against it because Hawk drivers would use flying mode to switch places and rape everyone because their mobility would be insanely fast. The reason for such change can be seen in WarHawk. How many times did WarHawk change from flying to hover to engage single or few infantry to totally annihilate them with in seconds and move away with high speed without possible counter attack. Billion times, I did it myself and got pwned by others who did the same thing. If you say its skills then I say that it is one of the easiest things to learn and requires little to no skill and thats why the transition from jet to mech in StarHawk is slow to avoid and counter such a quick attacks. And just like someone said in one of the interviews that StarHawk is comparable to game like StarCraft, they both need to well balanced in order for it to work.
I am expecting from this game a lot but maybe too much (mainly for the amount of buildings to be build or the complexity of the upgrades) but I can say this game will be killer hit for me because I enjoy teambased games and classes because you can be more than just a simple killing machine which gets tedious in time. Big player counts increase the fun factor for me because moving with big team requires a lot of teamwork and in order to win players have to give up on their selfish actions like K/D ratio.
If you don't like classes then you are solo player which only wants credit for himself by someway. Soloers get their kicks for their own performance, teamplayers (like me) get their kicks for helping others and achiving something as a team.
I like how you can single-handedly judge every single person who hates classes. If only I had this talent to accurately judge an entire group of people, that would be amazing.
Well thank you, I am an all knowing being so of course I'm right.
This game, as Framac (sorry if I spelt that incorrectly) said, is a spiritual sequel. That means it should not be a completely different game, (But not the same *****) it should have the same feel as Warhawk did and similar mechanics. And I fail to see how classes, a system which puts some people at a disadvantage to others (actually this hinders soloers because they would rely on others who play as different classes), is one step forward at all? As well as that, why should we stop saying that (that classes should be left out)? It is our opinion that they should be left out, just as it is your opinion that they should be included but I have not seen a single person telling people looking for classes to stop it (I didn't say classes should be in the game, I just like Class based shooters). Although you may see classes as a progression, I see it as a major step back. That doesn't make either of us wrong, it means we have different opinions and we prefer different things. (For teamwork based games classes are the basic thing because one player can't do every single thing so where is teamwork if I can do everything by myself without relying on others and classes encourage more for people to play as a team instead of as soloers)
I don't really have much an opinion on your third paragraph so I won't comment on it.
I agree that bigger player counts can be much more fun than smaller ones but (and this is the main reason I replied in a rant-like fashion) why on earth do you automatically assume people who don't like classes are K/D ratio obsessed monsters that hate all signs of teamwork? In fact, you didn't say you think that (which would imply that it is your opinion and nothing more) but you flat out said that everyone who doesn't like classes only cares about their K/D ratio.
(As I said earlier why would a player try to get help from others if he/she can do all things by himself, this isn't what I think because I have played so many games (which don't feature classes) that I couldn't help but to notice that the more independent players can be the less they will help the team)
First, having no clases actually does the opposite to making people killing machines. It means that everyone starts off exactly the same and that people have to get the weapons or vehicles themselves (Having pre set equipment in your disposal when you spawn makes the game faster and players can head to frontlines faster rather than starting to find basic weapons such as RPGs and Rifles. When selecting a class player will know what they have specialized in and they will play as the class is intended to be played) . This means that if people want there to be enough weapons for themselves (and I'm actually going to pretend that what you said about class-hating players being K/D ratio obsessive) they have to make sure they have enough bases so that the weapons won't be taken by their team mates (Yes map control, but gives an edge for the team who is controlling these power weapon spawns, they aren't really the easiest ones to capture back. But if I want to snipe or go binoc camp, how does that help the team? I would be waiting for the weapon to spawn, being selfish and not helping the team. And if the game ends up in a situation where the other team has surrounded your base and starts to baserape or spawnrape while blocking your access to RPGs, players can't do ***** because they won't have weapons to fight back, thats why classes are great, quick change to anti-tank class or heavy class to clear your base from rapers. Besides gamers aren't as patienced so that they would use these power weapons when needed or time it right because the effort to gather them all is bigger for random guys which don't use mics and don't even try to play as pro/elite teamplayer, like me most of the time). This means they capture the bases and are of benefit to their team.
Secondly, having no classes means that people should use teamwork in order to make sure everyone gets weapons/vehicles themselves (wait a bit, how does this improve teamwork? This actually hinders the game speed and makes it too complex for a random guy who isn't as good as you wish them to be, this would make the game slower, not faster or even fast) and that no player has every single weapon in the base leaving everyone else with a pistol and a knife whereas, with classes, this is irrelevant as everyone has their favourite weapons/loadout and can begin there K/D ratio farming from the second they spawn. (Don't think CoD's "classes", try BF classes or TF2 or Brink)
Thirdly, if they actually want decent K/D ratios and they are obsessed with it then guess what? They will certainly not want their own team trapped in their home base getting obliterated by Warhawks, tanks, Jeeps and RPGs (Basic rule in order to increase K/D: Never go face to face combat and fight in frontlines. The player you described is class 1 a-hole baseraper, he/she might get higher K/D ratio if they can push the opposite team to their base but there is bigger chance that it will do the opposite, besides these guys might not be there where mostly needed, like in CTF or Zones). Infact, they will want the opposite, to have the enemies trapped. This means that they will capture bases (which benefits the whole team even if they don't have that in mind) and will be of a large benefit to everyone they are with.
Fourthly, you mentioned Warhawks destroying ground troops in paragrah three of your post. I completely agree that that is mostly quite poor and should be stopped but it still benefits the Warhawker's team in that they are controlling the skies (Its called balancing). If they got out of the Warhawks, what would happen? Simple, the enemy team would get in the Warhawks, go to capture bases, take control of the majority of Warhawks and do the same to your team. (when the other team has airsuperiority it isn't easily broken, they have more weapons in their disposal than the other team so it gives the huge edge) And that's completely ignoring how they are beneficial in Capture the Flag to destroy enemies that take your teams flag or how they end up protecting the flag carrier. (Yes but if not balanced well meaning player is as good as dead meat then there is a problem)
In each of the above points, I used your incorrect assumption that all they care about is K/D ratio and hopefully showed you how they benefited the team in different ways. However, in the next points I will try to show how loadouts/classes can vastly hinder teamwork.
First, each player has the weapons they want. This emans they don't have to capture bases looking for what weapons they want as they spawn with it. That means if they like sniping they will spawn with a sniper, sit somewhere and just try to kill enemies from afar. If they like RPGs, they don't have to capture bases or wait for another one to spawn and they can instead just have one when they spawn. (Like I said earlier, collecting weapons makes the game slower. And been defencless player just annoys people. And it doesn't stop for players to go hunt that sniper rifle from somewhere safe and start sniping near the weapon spawn to fill your mags. And if people play teambased games like you are saying then its the players fault, not the games, besides in game like BF or WarHawk you just can't stay in the same spot to rack up kills be it class based or not because the maps are huge, not small one like in CoD (which seems to be the game you are refering to)
Secondly, in my experience, most games with a class system (Halo Reach being a notable exception) seem not to have any weapon pick-ups (but in most game types in Halo Reach all classes have the same weapon so weapon pick ups are necessary to prevent there being only one or two weapons in a game). This can result in the majority of a team picking a loadout with the same weapon. (Better to have lots of same weapons than having no weapons at all, both can be equally bad things excpet in class based games you can switch your equipment really fast) For example, if offered the choice, I would spawn every time with a RPG instead of an assault rifle (because the former can destroy Hawks) (Balance). This means that things like the wrench, pistol, assault rifle, knife, and sniper becoming unused (assault rifle because it takes a lot of bullets to kill somebody while you could kill a ground soldier with an RPG faster (Balance). The wrench because people would rather a long range weapon that's easier to achieve kills with. The pistol because the assault rifle and flamethrower are more useful. The knife because the flamethrower is a much more deadly close-range weapon and the sniper because, although useful for long range, is not as reliable as an RPG is when there is an enemy in medium to short range) and every enemy ends up using only a few weapons.
Thirdly, classes give a vast advantage to people who have played longer than others (Balance). This results in the higher ranked player having better equipment and therefore being able to get kills much easier than the lower ranked player. Although this would remove double accounts that are used solely to boost their K/D ratio, it would result in higher ranked players simply being able to kill more and more enemies without getting much incentive to end the game (by completing the task). (BALANCE D4MMIT)
Fourthly, if the build and battle choices were determined by class it would result in teams being put at a disadvantage if some buildings/vehicles spawns weren't available till a higher rank. Vehicles spawns in particular could result in higher players being the only people with certain vehicles that they are free to use to boost their K/D ratio with other players unable to stop them because they are not ranked high enough to have a weapon or vehicle to counter with leaving them almost hopeless. (*****? I didn't say anything like this. What kind of retarded person would create a MP game like this)
I would also appreciate if you stopped telling people what they get their "kicks" out of. Believe it or not, just because somebody prefers going solo does not mean that they want their team to lose and automatically only cares about their K/D ratio, something of so little importance that it shoud not be shown to others as yes, it does encourage people base-raping but that does not mean everyone that does it only cares about the K/D ratio. (Nobody wants their team to lose but if you don't play as a team member then don't bloody complain for lost game)
To me atleast, I do not want classes because it puts people at a disadvantage and means that, at the beginning of a match, when everybody spawns, everybody is equal (Nope, people have different skills and if some noobish starter goes and grabs all the power weapons from the pro players who know thing or two about them then it immediatly creates game breaking balance from the start) and the same and nobody has any advantage over another what-so-ever (In class based games its called pros and cons). Perhaps it's only me that thinks this (which I highly doubt), but it certainly isn't anything to do with something as trivial as stats (and I just want to mention that if loadouts do end up being introduced then hopefully you don't complain about the large amount of padders I expect will follow who want to get an early advantage over everyone else). (Report them, stats nulled)
Edi: Sorry for going into such a long rant, I hadn't intended it, it just sort of happened.
(Archipalago and that sunset eucadian city especially!)
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